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05-12-2022, 06:29 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
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Pin weight empty vs toys inside
Not new to camping, or driving large vehicles, but would like real world experiences. I've been a commercial driver for 25 years, so not clueless, but possibly over thinking things.
Let's use round numbers for simplicity. Say I have 3k pin weight on a 2 axle 39ft toy hauler. I load say 4 bikes at 250lbs each in the garage. I know there's many variables, so not expecting exact numbers, but I think I should see a noticeable difference in pin weight, right?
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05-12-2022, 06:35 PM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2022
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddewey78
...but I think I should see a noticeable difference in pin weight, right?
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Assuming its not a massive garage with toys sitting directly over the axles, the answer is yes.
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05-12-2022, 06:51 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,689
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YES pin weight will change with garage loaded....become lighter
Toyhaulers are PIN Heavy dry so when garage is loaded the Pin weight is still heavy enough to provide 20% pin ratio (or more)
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Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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05-13-2022, 06:22 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: Full Timing From SW Florida
Posts: 1,950
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddewey78
Not new to camping, or driving large vehicles, but would like real world experiences. I've been a commercial driver for 25 years, so not clueless, but possibly over thinking things.
Let's use round numbers for simplicity. Say I have 3k pin weight on a 2 axle 39ft toy hauler. I load say 4 bikes at 250lbs each in the garage. I know there's many variables, so not expecting exact numbers, but I think I should see a noticeable difference in pin weight, right?
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I think you will see a difference, but how much? My situation is a little different because my TH is a triple axle and I load a 1,200 pound Harley in the back. I know my pin goes down a little but I have been lazy and not run across the scales loaded yet. Based on the fact my F350 barely squats when I hook up loaded I'm guessing my pin is about perfect.
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Gave Up Full Time RV Traveling 2023.
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05-13-2022, 09:43 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Washington
Posts: 1,837
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As others said, yes, however it is likely that the difference will not make a significant difference.
As you said there are lots of variables probably the largest being where the weight is carried in your garage in relationship to your axles.
I would think that you may see at most a 10-20% of your load weight from your pin weight.
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Boondockers
2014 Volvo 630 Tandem 2016 Chevy 3500 DRW, crew cab
2016 Fuzion 325T, 675ah AGM, MSH 3012 inverter, 1400w Solar
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05-13-2022, 10:13 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: "Murvul", TN
Posts: 1,658
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I too have a triple axle Toy Hauler....Momentum 394M and last year we loaded up our normal stuff in the garage...plus two bicycles (not ebikes), plus a Can Am Spyder with a weight of about 1100 lbs. Pin weight decreased about 100 lbs vs. without the Spyder and bicycles. As stated, a lot will depend on the amount of weight added and where that is in relation to the axles. I'm seeing just under 4K pin weight without the Spyder.
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2016 F350 Crew Cab Dually Diesel King Ranch 4x4
2018 Grand Design Momentum 394M Toy Hauler
Excessive Payload Capacity is a Wonderful Thing!
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05-13-2022, 10:36 AM
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#7
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Community Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Full timing
Posts: 6,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ddewey78
Let's use round numbers for simplicity. Say I have 3k pin weight on a 2 axle 39ft toy hauler. I load say 4 bikes at 250lbs each in the garage. I know there's many variables, so not expecting exact numbers, but I think I should see a noticeable difference in pin weight, right?
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What is your definition of "noticeable"?
We are around 4250 of pin weight. When we had our gas power golf cart, about 1100 lbs., we would lose about 100lbs of pin weight.
Now we have a Spyder and expect around the same difference in pin weight.
After you get loaded, without the bikes, go get weighed. Then add the bikes and get weighed again, I would be interested to see the difference in pin weight. So, if you can please post the numbers.
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2018 Road Warrior 427
2013 Can Am Spyder RT Limited
2017 Ram 3500 w/Aisin w/4:10
2 Dachshunds DJ (RIP 9-12-19) & Joey (RIP 5-14-21)
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05-13-2022, 10:38 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 237
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I have a Nitro XLR 321 and I have not weighed it, but here is what I can tell you. When the 1,300# RZR is loaded the rear overload spring only contacts one the pads. When the RZR is not loaded the over load spring contacts both the front and rear pad. This is on a 2022 3500HD Duramax.
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05-13-2022, 11:24 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Mid Atlantic Campers Forest River Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 185
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Best to just go to a cat scale.
Always good to know your true weights. I was surprised when I did.
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2015 FR cedar creek , silverback 33IK
2015 chevy 3500HD
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05-13-2022, 09:34 PM
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#10
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Junior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kcmusa
Best to just go to a cat scale.
Always good to know your true weights. I was surprised when I did.
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I plan to, but just wasn't sure what to expect. I know from years on the road in a semi that the cantilever effect can change a semi a few hundred, to a few thousand depending on weight and placement from the fulcrum
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05-31-2022, 11:46 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: May 2017
Location: San Diego
Posts: 177
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It depends on the trailer and the load. We had a Rampage 377 triple axle for 10 years that was REALLY pin heavy even though it was alum sided and had no slides. It did have a very high CCC because of that at least. It wasn't until I loaded my ZJ Grand Cherokee in the very back that it made a difference big enough to feel while towing (which was a positive difference).
I scaled that setup many times over the years. Surprisingly with the Jeep in the trailer, I was over my GCWR but under on all of my axles I also made sure to have way more tire capacity than I'd ever need on the truck and the trailer.
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'05 Winnebago Vectra 40AD Cummins ISL "Big Winnie"
'21 Jeep WK2 or '00 Jeep WJ in tow
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06-28-2022, 04:44 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McVeycations
Assuming its not a massive garage with toys sitting directly over the axles, the answer is yes.
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The only way that answer is a yes, is if it's massive toys sitting as far away from the axles as possible. And even then, it will still only reduce pin weight by the ratio of distance fwd of CL orf axles to pin vs rearward from CL of axles to CoG of the toys.
In the OP's case, maybe 200lbs tops pin weight reduction.
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06-30-2022, 07:41 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: MI
Posts: 108
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I switched trucks over the winter and my tow ratings on the new Silverado dropped a bit from what my Ram had. The Ram spec was 1050# tongue weight while the Silverado is only 950. My trailer dry tongue weight is 950 so it has always concerned me a bit.
When I pulled it from storage this year it seemed to be porpoiseing more with the new truck. It was also dropping the back wheel well about 1.5" from the ground and raising the front about .75". I never measured with the Ram since the RV dealer set up the hitch and it was never an issue, but this seemed excessive. I have the Husky Centerline WDH so I raised the brackets one hole and that got me back to about .5" drop in the back and no change on the front.
I decided to buy the Sherline tongue weight scale to figure out my tongue weight. With my gear randomly distributed (no toys) and two full propane tanks it came in right at 950#.
I checked again while I was flushing the fresh water tank and adding 44 gallons of water did not affect tongue weight, which makes sense since the tank is directly over the axles.
I then moved all of my gear as far back as possible. This includes a 3500 watt generator (not loaded on first measurement), several folding tables and chairs, toolboxes with all of my cords, chocks, tools, etc. I also moved the spare tire from under the bed to the back. Tongue weight dropped to just under 800#.
I plan on hitting a CAT scale when I head out tomorrow to figure out the full weight picture, but I'm guessing I'm at about 6500# overall. That puts me at 12% tongue weight which from my research says is good. If it feels off I can always pull over and shift some stuff around.
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