Question for all you electrical engineering types

[Dunatic]

O.K., my front sleeper toybox has an onboard genny. Works well, pretty quiet like most these days. However, it is postioned right under my head in the front bed. The droning after a while can grate on you if say the kids are watching TV while I am in bed.


My solution is that I am i the process of aquiring a Honda EU 1000 which I plan to run remotely locked in the bed of my truck. My thinking is this is an almost silent option that will be much more fuel efficient for charging batteries, running a few lights, watching TV, etc. Plus I will still have the onboard to run the microwave, A/C, etc.

My question is if I am running the EU1000 remotely via the standard electrical cord and were the need to fire up the 4K genset, to say power the microwave for a moment, would there be a problem with the converter if both were powered at the same time?

Thanks,

Michael

[Dunatic]

O.K., my front sleeper toybox has an onboard genny. Works well, pretty quiet like most these days. However, it is postioned right under my head in the front bed. The droning after a while can grate on you if say the kids are watching TV while I am in bed.


My solution is that I am i the process of aquiring a Honda EU 1000 which I plan to run remotely locked in the bed of my truck. My thinking is this is an almost silent option that will be much more fuel efficient for charging batteries, running a few lights, watching TV, etc. Plus I will still have the onboard to run the microwave, A/C, etc.

My question is if I am running the EU1000 remotely via the standard electrical cord and were the need to fire up the 4K genset, to say power the microwave for a moment, would there be a problem with the converter if both were powered at the same time?

Thanks,

Michael

[twinbubba]

If I understand your proposal correctly, it seems to me that it is an either-or situation. Either you have your master electrical cord plugged into the recepticle box in the breaker compartment of your TH and this supplies power from your onboard generator....or....you unplug your master electrical cord from the receptacle in your breaker compartment and plug it into the EU1000 which would then supply power to the same componects as the onboard generator.
Your are only going to get power from the generator that you are plugged into.

TB

[Dunatic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If I understand your proposal correctly, it seems to me that it is an either-or situation. Either you have your master electrical cord plugged into the recepticle box in the breaker compartment of your TH and this supplies power from your onboard generator....or....you unplug your master electrical cord from the receptacle in your breaker compartment and plug it into the EU1000 which would then supply power to the same componects as the onboard generator.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is not the way my trailer is wired. The onboard generator is permanately hardwired to the coverter just as the 30 amp cord is. If I run a portable generator plugged in on the 30 amp cord at the same time as the onboard generator is running, there is power going to the converter from two different sources. This is the source of my question-will power coming from two sources hurt the converter?

I ask this because when my trailer is not in use is always garaged and plugged into 110. I have started the generator occasionally for a few minutes every now and then to keep the fuel for going bad in the fuel line and carb. Without thinking about itI have fired the generator up while it was plugged in. Although I have done this without catestrosphic results on each occasion, my converter did end up failing when the trailer was only 14 monthes old. I am wondering if power coming in from two sources at the same time may have been the cause of it. If that is the case I will need to be careful about using 2 generators.

Any other opinions would be appreciated.

Michael

[KNUCKLEHEAD]

Dune,
it seem's like somthing is missing here, do you have a automatic transfer switch on your rig ??.
Can you post a pic for us of the electric cord and where it connects ? Do u have a electrical plug that you plug your cord into, in the area you store the cord into ? You should, if that is the case..no worries, That cord end (male cord cap) will only allow 1 source of power to you electrical panel. I do not think your generator is permantly wired to your converter with out a automatic transfer switch. Keep in mind, just cause your generator is running, does not mean, your rig is powered from it. Hope this helps

[WWFan]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KNUCKLEHEAD:
Dune,
it seem's like somthing is missing here, do you have a automatic transfer switch on your rig ??.
Can you post a pic for us of the electric cord and where it connects ? Do u have a electrical plug that you plug your cord into, in the area you store the cord into ? You should, if that is the case..no worries, That cord end (male cord cap) will only allow 1 source of power to you electrical panel. I do not think your generator is permantly wired to your converter with out a automatic transfer switch. Keep in mind, just cause your generator is running, does not mean, your rig is powered from it. Hope this helps </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dunatic: KH's got the idea here...you can only hook one source manually to the genset connector- don't dare try to fangle some type of wiring up to fed both- you're just looking for trouble.

But it isn't all for not: like KH mentioned, they make ATS (Automatic Transfer Switches) like This One for a 30 Amp Circuit, and if you look at the "C" Hookup diagram, you can use two ATSs to feed two different generator setups to your coach. I gave you the 30 amp (since you said you have a 4k genset?), but they also make a 50 amp if that's what your rig is setup for. I've been eyeballing these units (but the 50amp models) for quite some time now and can't see any downfall (other than the miniscule cost, and maybe an electrician's cost to hook it up for you). Of ocurse, you may already have a transdfer switch, which if it's setup for this type of "daisy-chaining", then you're only looking at one unit.

If you can get a general sense of how your existing genset is hooked into your system, and what your MFR used, call Solar Seller and talk to john Drake- he'll get you all setup.

Then, all you have to do is come back here and show us the pics!!

Good luck!

Sean

[Dunatic]

Whoa, either I am really confused or doing a very bad job explaining my question. Let me try explain my question with a similar scenario. If your trailer is plugged in to say 30 or 50 amp service at an RV park and somebody comes along and turns on the onboard genset on. Is the coach being powered by the generator, the RV park service or both. If the latter is true can this harm the power converter.

Likewise, if I am running my honda eu off the cord 100 feet away in the back of my truck to power batteries and decide I want to run the microwave for a minute, can I just fire up the onboard while the honda is still running and get 4K power? Will having 110 coming in from two sources potentially harm the converter.

[twinbubba]

Dunatic, I think the confusion for me is that your TH must be wired way different from my Warrior. If I am supplying power from my generator the 30 amp service piug is plugged into a recepticle inside my breaker conpartment. If I want to plug into shore power I pull my 30 amp survice plug out of the recepticle in my breaker compartment and plug it into shore power.
If your TH dosn't work that way, it is different from any TH with an onboard generator than I have ever seen. I admit I am no expert having only had a travel trailer for 1 1/2 years and looked at a lot of them before I bought. So all I can tell you is how mine and the ones I saw when I was shopping works.

TB

[Dunatic]

Bub:

I know what you are talking about, but mine is not like that. I have never had to touch the cord on my trailer to switch from genset to shore power. I also know that my trailer is not high end enough to come with any auto transfer switch built in either.

I guess that is the source of my question. Having one power converter already go bad I am wondering if this is the source of the problem. Like I said before, I have cycled my generator on more than one occasion for a few minutes with the shore power still hooked up having never given a thought about it. But now I starting to wonder about it.

'Bob

[PbdBlue]

Lurker here. I am a EE by trade. First off never ever parallel two generators or a generator and shore power. They will be operating out of phase and the resulting damage will range from a blown breaker to fire. The only exception that I know of is the the Honda EU series that can be paralleled with another EU generator using a special harness. I looked at the Attitude web page brochure and it appears that they do come with a transfer switch so you should have no problem running both generators. I have this setup in my MH and I run a Honda EU1000 connected to the shore power cord for the light loads (battery charging, TV, lights) and when I want to run the microwave or the AC I just start up the onboard Onan. Mine is wired so that the Onan gen has priority over shore power and I'm pretty sure that that is the standard configuration. So basically when you start the house gen both gen's will be running but only the house is supplying the coach. When you shut off the house gen the transfer switch will switch back to shore power (small gen). The only problem you may have is that the transfer time is kind of long and will cause your TV to go off for a second or two. Some set's will come right back on and others may require you to turn them back on. Satellite receivers will generally jump back into the "search" mode and you will have to wait for them to aquire again. In my case I also have a 2000W Freedom 458 inverter that also has it's own auto transfer that is very fast so if I have the inverter function enabled the inverter automatically powers the circuits while the gen transfer is being completed and the tv's/sat receiver do not shut off. Sort of like a UPS on a computer. Kind of a long winded answer but I hope this helps.

[Dunatic]

Blue:

Thanks for your input. I was able to dig up an old brochure from the trailer I bought, and sure enough, the genset has a transfer switch. Nice feature (still not a high end trailer though). Still doesn't answer the question as to why my converter failed within the first 14 monthes. But I installed a better one (intellepower) with a charge wizard so It wasn't a total loss.

So I guess my original idea of the two generators option may work. My thinking is exactly what your doing. I plan to run the Honda in the evenings placed in my truck 50 + feet away. Between the distance and already quiet honda I am thinking this option will be almost silent in the trailer while burning a fraction of the fuel my onboard does. Before you all flame me, my current trailer setup is more than a half mile away from the closest camp.

[adj]

You are trying to resolve a noise problem electrically..

Is there any room in your OB generator compartment for more sound proofing?
I'm specically thinking of the 1/4" foil backed air bubble insulation that has great sound and heat insulating qualities. A couple layers of this stuff may be your answer.

[KNUCKLEHEAD]

Dunatic,
I think you converter going out was a coincendense

[Dunatic]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You are trying to resolve a noise problem electrically..

Is there any room in your OB generator compartment for more sound proofing?
I'm specically thinking of the 1/4" foil backed air bubble insulation that has great sound and heat insulating qualities. A couple layers of this stuff may be your answer.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

My approach here is not so much about noise, but in going this route I think I would get more benefit from having a generator in first place because I would be less discretionary about its use. I figure these are the benefits:

First of all it would eleminate the droning effect in the front bed area that gets to irritating after a while.

Second would be fuel savings. My onboard is fairly efficient at lower loads but still uses more gas that the Honda 1k unit will. At $2.50 - 3.00 per gallon (whatever the cost of fuel will be this week). Most of my camping is in the spring to winter monthes. 95% of my 110 requirements could be handled by a 1K generator. I figure why power 4K all the time when I don't need it. The savings would add up over time.

Third is to reduce the hours on my onboard. This could effect resale and possibly even add to the cost of my use if I used the genset enough to require replacement or major repair. I got a smoking deal on a almost new, low hours honda. I could wear many of these out (its pretty hard to wear out a Honda) and still have less than what it would cost to replace the fixed unit on my trailer.

Between the fuel savings and capital/maintenance costs, I might be able to save a few bucks in the long run. Probably a bigger factor is that I would use the generator more which my family would apprecicate.

Just my rational-maybe right, maybe wrong.

'Bob