Toy Hauler - brand advice?

[jhsellers]

Hello,

I posted this in the general forum, but I'm wondering if this sub-forum may have more advice.

I'm new to the forums, but not new to RVing - been camping since childhood, in all portable homes, from tents to pickups, to trailers. Wanted to say hey and ask for general advice for toy haulers.

Wife and I are looking at toy haulers. It's been a while since I've investigated travel trailer manufacturers, and I don't know which brands are better. We looked at Work and Play a few years ago, but now we've become more serious about a potential purchase.

A local dealer has a couple of models available that we like - similar floor plans that appeal to us. (Camping World, for other advice for dealer preference - I've read a bit about potential pitfalls with this particular retailer?) The two that interest us are Work and Play 30WRS and Dutchmen Endurance 3706.

I know that new Work and Play models are not built the same as previous units, without a full metal roof, and without full metal trim and million-mile bolts. Thus we've been searching for a used unit, with the previous build quality. The Camping World network has access to a used Work and Play, but it's several hundred miles away, and so we can't inspect it personally.

This particular dealer also has a new Dutchmen (Keystone) Endurance 3706, which has pretty much the same features and floorplan, with one additional slide out. From my initial investigations, it looks like this Dutchmen Endurance lineup may not be but a couple/few years old.

Can you guys help with suggestions about the build quality of Dutchmen/Keystone travel trailers vs. Forest River Work and Play models?

I like the idea of a new unit - Dutchmen - with warranty, and non-used, plus I'm leaning toward the Dutchmen, as it appears to have better finishing that other Work and Play units I've seen previously. (I also like the second slide out, even though the kitchen island doesn't give that much more living space than the Work and Play 30WRS.) But I don't know anything about the build quality of Dutchmen trailers, even though I do know the name has been prevalent in camper manufacturing for many decades.

I have looked at Forest River Work and Play models for several years, so I know that prior year models have had good reviews about the trailer construction. However, getting serious about a used unit that is several states away has me concerned.

I welcome any and all advice and comments.

[jhsellers]

Further to my search - if earlier Work and Play models are not to be found (in condition that I'd like), then I'm left to purchase other brands. I recognize that there are more models in similar floorplans that I like also - such as Heartland Torque T31 and T333, or Jayco Octane T32G.

But, from reading reviews, not only toy haulers but of other travel trailer makes too - it seems that no one manufacturer (or line, since only Thor and Forest River seem to make most all products) is generating quality RVs.

What's a potential buyer to do? Any directions?

Thanks,
John

[avvidclif]

You didn't say where you are but I have been looking at Sundowner Toy Haulers. They call them a ProGrade Toy Hauler and they are. Nice thing is they will build it like you want, you want the fridge where, what brand, model etc? Ok. They are not cheap but there is no comparison to an RV. They have a 3 Yr Bumper to Bumper Transferrable warranty that includes all of the appliances in living quarters. 8 Yr structual warranty also. Featherlite also builds them but I haven't see one of theirs.

[jhsellers]

Thanks, Clif - those Sundowner Trailers do look nice. Unfortunately, it appears that most of their larger trailers (horse, toy haulers, etc.) are gooseneck or fifth wheel design. Right now, I'm hesitant to give up the camper shell on my truck, so I'm looking for a bumper pull trailer. We travel with pets, as well as other gear, that we stow nicely in the back of the truck, so I want to keep that for its protection and security.

I do like the Sundowners, and the Featherlites, for a customized cargo trailer route. They are both much better than the cargo trailer I now use to haul my Softail Deuce. If I wanted to consider a built cargo option, I'd probably opt for one of these two for starters. However, my wife would prefer something nicer for living quarters, especially if we go for more than a few days without a hotel stayover.

PS - I can't find a profile option that allows my location to show under my username, but I'm in North GA. There is a Sundowner dealer only an hour away (near Knoxville, TN), so I may go visit them to see the trailers. Thanks again.

Best regards,
John

[MightyMX]

Looked at the following for part time living and here is my list of everything I considered.

GD 352M = $$$$
Raptor = $$$ and heavy.
Carbon 357 = Its pretty nice and $52K (working with dealer now)
Torque 327 = Cheaper that Carbon but couldn't find floor plan we liked.
Fuel = Seems cheap inside.

[Normal_Dave]

I have a few thoughts...(not surprising to some).

-We'll assume you have a tow rig suitable for a 30' toy hauler. Doggone things are heavy when loaded.

-Shopping used, so like me you may be looking for the "mostest for the leastest". Do you have a budget range you are willing to share with us?

-Other posts indicate your current setup is a cargo trailer. Do you want the larger size primarily for living space, and is the single Harley going to be the primary garage occupant?

Brands-My favorites:

-Northwood Desert Fox (now available through Southland in Norcross, GA, but only new and special order).
Northwood | Desert Fox 27FS

-Sister company Outdoors RV Trail Series, Mtn Trax.
https://outdoorsrvmfg.com/trail-series-29trx/

-ATC Aluminum Toy Hauler
ATC Aluminum Toy Hauler

-Livinlite Quicksilver Toy Hauler (now owned by Thor, and discontinued, but still a good build).
https://www.livinlite.com/products/q...8.5x31FBR.html

Or, since you've been using a cargo trailer, just build/convert your own. Few of these manufactured toy haulers will ever be a tough as a cargo with 1" welded square tubing studs/frame in the walls/ceiling. You can order it custom with most any options you want, then finish it out to your liking.
Example of a smaller conversion
https://youtu.be/FASF-x9ofMY
https://youtu.be/wb-pvBbyyBs

Sky is the limit...this is what we did after being disappointed with high prices/fancy trim that didn't look like it would hold up past one season bouncing down a forest service road. I know, not typical use, but it worked for us. Here's ours, we needed to haul mountain bikes, kayaks, and kids on a tight budget. Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers • View topic - 4 kids+ 6 bikes+ 4 kayaks+ 1 canoe+ camp stuff=7x16 CTC

Oh, here's a smaller used Livinlite in Auburn, AL
https://auburn.craigslist.org/rvs/d/...868763041.html

Hey, a Desert Fox in South Georgia, if this is for real, definitely worth the drive!
https://statesboro.craigslist.org/rv...888517768.html

[avvidclif]

Originally Posted by jhsellers

Thanks, Clif - those Sundowner Trailers do look nice. Unfortunately, it appears that most of their larger trailers (horse, toy haulers, etc.) are gooseneck or fifth wheel design. Right now, I'm hesitant to give up the camper shell on my truck, so I'm looking for a bumper pull trailer. We travel with pets, as well as other gear, that we stow nicely in the back of the truck, so I want to keep that for its protection and security.

I do like the Sundowners, and the Featherlites, for a customized cargo trailer route. They are both much better than the cargo trailer I now use to haul my Softail Deuce. If I wanted to consider a built cargo option, I'd probably opt for one of these two for starters. However, my wife would prefer something nicer for living quarters, especially if we go for more than a few days without a hotel stayover.

PS - I can't find a profile option that allows my location to show under my username, but I'm in North GA. There is a Sundowner dealer only an hour away (near Knoxville, TN), so I may go visit them to see the trailers. Thanks again.

Best regards,
John

Yes the Toy Haulers are all gooseneck. Go to https://www.mhsrv.com/toy-haulers/?condition=2 and look at the interior in that one. The interior in a Sundowner will make any rv JEALOUS as far as fit, finish, and materials used. The cabinets are solid wood and the doors are solid also, not hollow core. Call them, they will build out a cargo trailer the way you want it.

[jhsellers]

Thanks, Dave - and thanks again to Clif.

Tow capacity shouldn't be a problem - my truck is a Dodge 3500/Cummins - as I'm not looking to pull more than 10k-12k max. (I realize that some trailers I'm considering are at that limit; I prefer to tow less, but the Ram should be able to tow around 15k safely with the proper hitch and brake components.) I've looked at some of the "ultra-lite" type trailers, but most of them seem to get lighter by reducing tank capacities, and I don't see much sense in that if you want to be able to boondock at all.

I'm fairly certain I don't want to lose my truck bed and camper shell, so I'm not looking for a fifth wheel. I do plan to get a good hitch for whatever unit we end up with - either a Hensley or a ProPride, pivot point projection type.

I am certainly looking for "the mostest for the leastest" - don't we all aspire to that when procuring anything? Used RVs would be fine with me, but my wife is real picky when it comes to cleanliness, and she won't put up with anybody elses trash/dirt. There are likely good buys to be had, and we're going to be patient since we really need to get aligned on our layout and feature preferences.

Budget will probably be $30k-40k. I like the extra room afforded by slideouts, especially on layouts like the Heartland Torque T31, and the newer T333. A king size bed will probably be mandatory also, because I'm a bad sleeper and my wife is easily disturbed by my sleep apnea and restless leg syndrome. She's also laid the law down about a patio option, since she wants to travel with her pets (dogs and a pig). Most ramps can be fitted with the patio cables and fences, so this should be a given.

Toys we'll carry will be one (maybe two) motorcycles, and/or a four-wheeler. We might want to throw in a kayak, a grill and folding camp chairs, but not much more than that. I'm guessing that however big a garage I get, I will eventually fill it up, but I'm not looking for more than 12-13 ft. garage. (I don't think I want to settle for a 10-ft. garage...)

We're also wondering if we'd ultimately travel alone, or if we might have other join us where we might want slightly bigger living space so all could congregate into one unit for dinner and movie? That could factor into a final decision.

I've also become aware of nuances in build differences - such as some builders putting black tank flush fittings on the opposite side from the drain valves and utility connections. I really hope that I continue to notice things like that even if I become enamored about other features that tempt me to spring to an impulse purchase! I don't want to get a unit that has weird kinks that will continue to annoy me down the road.

There are lots of manufacturers - you guys have shown me some I hadn't even gotten to yet. I'm just wondering if any are going to be that much better than others, without going to really high end units such as ATC, or a custom Sundowner like Clif suggested.

The custom cargo builds are amazing; I've thought about that route. But, I don't have the time (or energy) to go through that - it would likely take me years to get something completed before I think I'd really begin to enjoy it. My present cargo unit is just a small 7x12 trailer that only holds a couple of bikes, and I'd have to start over with a new trailer that probably wouldn't please my wife anyway.

Thanks again guys, for your links and suggestions.

Best,
John

[Raider47]

I have been going back and forth trying to decide the best fit for my situation. I originally was leaning towards the ATC bumper pull toy haulers with front bedroom or the livin lite equivalent because the all aluminum and composite construction would be rust and rot proof. Gooseneck and 5th wheels tow better and make more efficient use of overall length which are important considerations for me so I am also considering ATC and Sundowners in that configuration.
Sundowner uses a lot of wood on the interior but after looking at ATC in person, I think the warmth and feel of wood is worth the trade off of risk of water damage and a little extra weight. The all aluminum ATC feels a bit like a conex box because of the metallic echo and lack of insulation but otherwise seems good quality.

My current inclination is to get a truck camper and tow a utility trailer when I want to haul “toys”. That way I could leave the trailer behind if I travel to campgrounds that limit RV length and maybe even use a ferry to travel Alaska and Canada. Also, some truck campers are molded fiberglass which are generally more leak resistant and insulated.

Hope my perspective helps and good luck!

[KHBama]

We purchased an Endurance 3706 back in March. We have loved it so far. It is a beast of a trailer though, 14k GVWR. Build quality is about on par with most entry level to mid level trailers. We have 2 kids so we turn the back into a bunk room as soon as we get unloaded. It only comes with one A/C though. A trailer that long needs at least 2. We ended up buying a portable a/c for the garage and vent it out the window. Every trailer we have owned up till now has been a “light” weight trailer. This one seems a little more sturdy. Onboard 5500 Generator is a huge plus also

[Normal_Dave]

Great info John, thanks. You are really doing you homework.

Your goals sound familiar to me. If I'm reading between the lines properly you'd prefer quality over "skin deep" beauty in the typical toy hauler. Trouble is most RVs are built to look like home away from home, fancy appearance, but kinda weak on the structure and quality.

This is where the Northwood and sister company Outdoors RV are a step above. Probably just outside your budget. To get one, you may have to go across the country, but they are building a better mousetrap out there, and people are beating a path to their door. No King bed, no slideouts, but a well built custom frame, well insulated trailer, to handle our Southeast August heat or cooler seasons on the road.

This Outdoors RV build video pretty much covers the Desert Fox build quality, since the two brands share the custom made frames.
https://youtu.be/AK6jQRxBKeo

Be sure to check out the trail series video, ORV just started building toy haulers, Northwood has had the Desert Fox for many years. The used 27FS near Statesboro, is quite an unusual find for our area. I'd be curious to hear how you think it compares to the Indiana brands after touring through it. At the end of the day, you get to pick how to spend your money, we just sit here and throw peanuts.

I'd tend to give up a creature comfort or two in exchange for better build quality and longevity if possible.

Good luck and good hunting!

[SWO Vette]

I Have a 25FBC Puma toy hauler which is a bumper pull. I'd like to have a 5th wheel but my storage site is height limited. It was our first trailer of any kind so I wanted something fairly simple as there is less to go wrong on them. We have not had any major issues. It has no slides, but a private bedroom up front with the bath toward the living area/garage. I haul my Road Glide with no problems. It is a little tight with it loaded if we stay somewhere before we get to the final destination, but we manage.

As we also use it to tailgate at college football games I wish it's had bigger tanks as we have to boondocks and also use a generator for power. But, it pulls great and meets my need.

[slipp]

i'd also recommend northwood desert fox or the outdoor RV TH as well. Excellent insulation and well built.
we travel the country, full time in a desert fox 24as bumper pull.
i've put almost 80k miles on this one. i've changed the shocks, suspension equalizer, and switched to an all steel tractor trailer radial tire, and nothing else.

[SNOKAT]

We have a Stryker model 2916(36ft). 16 ft garage.Have used it 2 yr,lots of miles with no issues.Use a Hensley hitch. Good solid unit for the price. Haul a RZR 1000S or Polaris Slingshot.