Toyhaulers - 5th Wheel VS. Gooseneck Horse Trailer LQ???

[Ryan]

Why don't more people use gooseneck living quarters horse trailer type trailers for hauling their toys? They're not nearly as tall overall (which means you can get back into the tighter mountains under the trees, have less wind drag on the highway meaning improved fuel economy) and you can get them in a shorter over all length than what all the regular 5th wheel toyhaulers make. People selling these trailers all tell me that their resale value is much better than toyhauler RV's and that their living quarters areas are better built than regular toyhauler RV's. Their frames, axles and brakes should also be more heavy duty as they are designed to haul much heavier loads (horses instead of 4 wheelers and camping equipment). Just curious about why lots of other people aren't going this route, if there's stuff that I'm not aware of. Thanks in advance for the info!!!

[Ryan]

Anybody???

[Vette Racer]

Well, my take is:

1: the living quarters is not as large
2: when you take the toy's out you have a lot more room in a toyhauler.
3: Horse trailers don't have near as large a tanks as toyhaulers.
4: They aren't as wide as toyhaulers
5: They are designed to haul horses, not toy's.
6: The toy area isn't air conditioned
7: I don't have a clue since I have never seen the inside of a horse trailer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone that has first hand experience take over please since I don't have a clue.

[450Donn]

I think you pretty much summed it up.
Actually if I was going for a toy hauler, I think I would look at a used long wheel base class 8 and get a box installed on the back.

[FatDog]

i know that horse trailers are all pulled over dirt roads, but just how much heavy offroad movement can that gooseneck hitch handle?
a lot of the 5'r hitches for TH'rs have fully articulating mounts and it seems to me will absorb more of the punch of an offroad bump

and 15/20 years ago most TH'rs i saw were 20-28'.
Now it seems every guy who has a FordRanger goes out immediatly and buys a 40' poker house.
I don't think TH'rs see the allure of a HEAVY small box, the trend appears to be in liter big boxes.

[Ryan]

Originally posted by Vette Racer:
Well, my take is:

1: the living quarters is not as large
2: when you take the toy's out you have a lot more room in a toyhauler.
3: Horse trailers don't have near as large a tanks as toyhaulers.
4: They aren't as wide as toyhaulers
5: They are designed to haul horses, not toy's.
6: The toy area isn't air conditioned
7: I don't have a clue since I have never seen the inside of a horse trailer!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Anyone that has first hand experience take over please since I don't have a clue.

Thanks for the reply. With the living quarters not being as large, it would be possible to get a trailer with a seperate garage that wasn't so darn long, but could all be opened up when the space was needed. 2. Same with Living Quarters Horse trailer - if the cargo area is kept nice and clean, it can be used for living space when the toys aren't in there, or setup with pull down beds. 3. Not familiar with their tank sizes. 4. They make then 8' wide, which should be wide enough, but not 8 1/2' wide. 5. If they are designed to haul horses, since horses are alot heavier and can move around in the trailer more during transport, their framework, axles and running gear are all alot beefier, which I don't see as a problem but rather an advantage. They're rated to carry more cargo weight. 6. Toy area not Air conditioned. Some are, and it can be done if a person wishes. would depend on how they were going to use that area - just for storage of toys and stuff, or to live in also. 7. Living Quarter Horse trailers guys insist that the workmanship and quality that goes into building their trailers far surpasses that of TH RV's, and also point out that their resale value is always much higher. RV's resale always drops quickly.

I'm not saying I'm going to rush out and purchase one of these trailers - I've just been looking at them for along time and wonder why more people don't use them for hauling ATV's. The dealer says that do alot of custom orders from the factory for people intending to use them for toys - and they special order them with everything just the way they want. They're sure more expensive though since they're all aluminum trailers.

[FatDog]

how much does a typical one weigh when outfitted for living. say one that is 28-33' long?

[Ryan]

I'm not sure what the exact weights are - I'd have to get some brochures or look into it more. I just know that people have been using them for alot of years putting alot more miles on them than the average campers (hauling from 1 rodeo to the next - full time), and that they haul alot more weight in them with their horses than we would with a couple 4-wheelers. So if they're fine hauling the heavier horses and all their stuff, and people using them to haul ATV's would be hauling less weight, then they should certainly be fine.

[dbear]

Vette Racer gave it a stab, but some of his answers were not on the money. I'll try to dispel some of the myths around these units.

Originally posted by Vette Racer:
Well, my take is:

1: the living quarters is not as large

Probably an accurate assessment if only including the conversion area. The largest I've seen is around 22'-23' including the over hitch bedroom (14' living area plus 8'-9' of bedroom). Keep in mind that they can be equipped with slides (I've seen up to two - living room super and one in bedroom), and many makes have a door that opens to the cargo area where you can equip it with bunks, sofas, or both, that fold against the wall to get your toys inside. Definite negative is the lack of headroom (only 3'-4') in the bedroom vs RV-based, despite being able order most trailers with extra height (height is added to the entire length of the unit, not just to the bedroom).

2: when you take the toy's out you have a lot more room in a toyhauler.

Not true. You're forgetting about those RV-based models with 10'-14' separate garage, and, as mentioned above, cargo-based units can be outfitted with limited LQs in the garage, and even can have a rear screen wall. Also, as most LQs units can be ordered in lengths from 24' to 40+', usually in 2' increments, overall space may actually be greater.

3: Horse trailers don't have near as large a tanks as toyhaulers.

This is very true. You'll also find that they are not, and have no option to be, heated. A definite real concern if cold weather camping is on your list.

4: They aren't as wide as toyhaulers

Another accurate statement, although I did stumble across one that did have the option of 102" interior. Don't remember which make right now.

5: They are designed to haul horses, not toy's.

With the exception of horse trailers with LQs, wrong. The cargo-based units are popular with the race car crowd, and many makes are based upon their line of enclosed car carriers. Also, many offer application specific, tie-down packages to accommodate the user's cargo.

6: The toy area isn't air conditioned

It's an option on all the ones I've researched. You'll find that R values are significantly different (around 5 is the answer I get from most dealers I've asked) with a LQ unit, so keeping it cool and/or warm could be harder.

All that said, their number one advantage over the RV-based units is their ability to carry much heavier payloads. Most RV-based units with separate garage, limit the cargo in that space 2500#, with a total CCC of 4000# or less. I've seen some cargo-based units that have a CCC of close to 10k#, and it doesn't matter where you put it. For me, this point alone is the reason I'm seriously considering one.

With regard to 5th wheel vs gooseneck, everything I've read suggests the GN is the hitch of choice for off-road applications. Something about better, or wider, range of movement twisting side-to-side. Keep in mind that many LQs manufacturers offer either style of hitch.

[FatDog]

... With regard to 5th wheel vs gooseneck, everything I've read suggests the GN is the hitch of choice for off-road applications. Something about better, or wider, range of movement twisting side-to-side. Keep in mind that many LQs manufacturers offer either style of hitch.

the twisting is one aspect to offroad movement between the trailer and the TV, but the fully articulating swivel 5'r hitches i've used will partially absorb a few inches of pushing from the trailer.
It seems that the GN would transfer every bit of that push/pull directly to the truck.
I'd like to be able to pull a heavy GN over the same rugged to compare the action betwen the two.

[dbear]

Originally posted by FatDog:
the twisting is one aspect to offroad movement between the trailer and the TV, but the fully articulating swivel 5'r hitches i've used will partially absorb a few inches of pushing from the trailer.
It seems that the GN would transfer every bit of that push/pull directly to the truck.
I'd like to be able to pull a heavy GN over the same rugged to compare the action betwen the two.

Yeah, I'd like to see that too. I don't have any experience with either type; just relaying info I'd read elsewhere. I do know they make air-ride versions of both varieties.

[FatDog]

(re: horse haulers) ... All that said, their number one advantage over the RV-based units is their ability to carry much heavier payloads. Most RV-based units with separate garage, limit the cargo in that space 2500#, with a total CCC of 4000# or less. I've seen some cargo-based units that have a CCC of close to 10k#, and it doesn't matter where you put it. For me, this point alone is the reason I'm seriously considering one.

Ryan, who posted this thread originally, based his question while owning a Chevy2500.
I've bought 3 new (RV-based) toyhaulers while I owned F350's (esentially the same truck).
That doesn't mean Ryan (or I) can't ever move up to a MDT, but i sure don't see having a liveable toy hauler with a toy carry of 10,000 pds. with a pickup. Thats why i earlier asked ...

"just how much do these things weigh??"

because if we're talkin a heavy horse-hauler behind a 4700 i'd rather look into getting a custom built single unit - a converted long hauler with a connected 30' box with a ramp door on its tail end.
With today's diesel price, i don't see the advantage of owning a seperate MDT and having to hook a GN every time i want to use the rig. Look into a used tractor with a liveable connected box.

[dbear]

Originally posted by FatDog: Ryan, who posted this thread originally, based his question while owning a Chevy2500.
I've bought 3 new (RV-based) toyhaulers while I owned F350's (esentially the same truck).
That doesn't mean Ryan (or I) can't ever move up to a MDT, but i sure don't see having a liveable toy hauler with a toy carry of 10,000 pds. with a pickup. Thats why i earlier asked ...

"just how much do these things weigh??"

because if we're talkin a heavy horse-hauler behind a 4700 i'd rather look into getting a custom built single unit - a converted long hauler with a connected 30' box with a ramp door on its tail end.
With today's diesel price, i don't see the advantage of owning a seperate MDT and having to hook a GN every time i want to use the rig. Look into a used tractor with a liveable connected box.

Most I've seen range from 15k to 21k GVWR. Some certainly would fall above a 1 ton's capability, or at least, comfort zone. All the ones I've been leaning toward would require, at least in my mind, an MDT minimum.

You make a valid point about MDTs. Most of the converted haulers I've seen, both new and used, are outrageously high cost for what you get. Thought about going the used chassis cab route, but the specs on most I found were only adaquate to move, at best, it's own GVW; forget about pulling an additional 18k-21k.

A used, single axle HDT w/sleeper is already set up to pull twice what I'm looking at without breaking a sweat, and usually for half the money of a MDT.

I got a lot more thinking to do yet on this whole thing.

[Ray,IN]

By design, horse trailers, whether bumper hitch or gooseneck are built lower to the ground to accomodate loading/unloading horses. Lower to the ground means more restriction to where you can pull the trailer.