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Old 05-16-2020, 09:36 AM   #1
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Under the bed Toy Hauler

Hi all,
I'm looking to purchase a 5th wheel TH in the next two years (retiring) to replace my pull behind. We only need room for the HD motorcycle so an under the bed garage appears to fit the bill. Planning on a LONG tour of the US. I've looked at the Fuzion 410 and really like the floor plan, but I've been reading mixed reviews on the quality. When shopping for this type of TH, which seems to be fairly new to the market, I have some difficulty sorting through the regular TH's trying to find an under the floor/bed. I'm looking for any suggestions from those who own them. What's good/bad, what would you have wanted different, or any lessons learned? I have not been able to walk around any yet, but beside the Fuzion, I've also looked at the River Stone and keystone floor plans. I like the front LR design and want to be able to access the bathroom without opening any slides. For right now, I'm looking at everything. Size, weight, length, cost, are all open. Thank you in advance.
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Old 05-16-2020, 10:30 AM   #2
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Montana has one too 381TH I believe
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Old 05-16-2020, 02:03 PM   #3
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We considered one at first before buying our Road Warrior. What the wife did not like, and myself included, was during overnight stops you can not use your bed unless you unload.
We meet a couple in Medina Lakes with a Solitude model and they liked it well enough, back said they had to sleep on the couch during overnight stops.
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Old 05-16-2020, 07:24 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by hamm2018 View Post
We considered one at first before buying our Road Warrior. What the wife did not like, and myself included, was during overnight stops you can not use your bed unless you unload.
We meet a couple in Medina Lakes with a Solitude model and they liked it well enough, back said they had to sleep on the couch during overnight stops.

My camping buddy has one. He only carries dirt bikes, so they are able to put the bed down after the bikes are loaded. Makes the overnights easier.
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Old 05-18-2020, 04:32 PM   #5
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Grand design momentum 376
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Old 05-18-2020, 09:13 PM   #6
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I second the GD 376. It was the RV I had my eye on. Beautiful lay out. Real living space. Large tanks which the Montana lack. Built in generator and fuel station. Tons of storage space.

Down side is you have to open the slides to access any of it. It is a huge unit and needs a 1 ton dually.

We looked for a long time and could not find anything that we wanted. Anything that came close was still in the same price range. The main reason we did not end up with one is we found a like new unit that met all of our requirements and being used was about $25k less. For $5-10K I was not willing to buy something else, for $25k I was.
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:38 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by hamm2018 View Post
We considered one at first before buying our Road Warrior. What the wife did not like, and myself included, was during overnight stops you can not use your bed unless you unload.
We meet a couple in Medina Lakes with a Solitude model and they liked it well enough, back said they had to sleep on the couch during overnight stops.
This was something we had not considered. I spoke with the Mrs. about the issue, and she's not too keen on sleeping on the couch either. May have to re-think it?
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Old 05-19-2020, 04:47 AM   #8
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I second the GD 376. It was the RV I had my eye on. Beautiful lay out. Real living space. Large tanks which the Montana lack. Built in generator and fuel station. Tons of storage space.

Down side is you have to open the slides to access any of it. It is a huge unit and needs a 1 ton dually.

We looked for a long time and could not find anything that we wanted. Anything that came close was still in the same price range. The main reason we did not end up with one is we found a like new unit that met all of our requirements and being used was about $25k less. For $5-10K I was not willing to buy something else, for $25k I was.
Not going to lie, the GD 376 is a beautiful beast! It's heavy too! I want to walk around one. Drawback beside sleeping on the couch between stays is access with the slides closed. It's a mansion on wheels though. Thank you and Palmeris
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Old 05-19-2020, 06:28 AM   #9
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Grand Design has discontinued the 376. You mentioned you heard quality issues with Fuzion. As a former full timer, avid recreational RVer, and also I transport fivers for customers so I have pretty broad experience of first hand owner opinions.

Fuzions are on par with the Grand Designs. GD just seems to have the most aggressive internet scrubbing service. Most every Fuzion owner I have dealt with have been extremely satisfied and report the same number of issues as any GD owner. Not digging on GD but I have seen firsthand the same cracked sidewalls, flattened leaf springs, and even dropped black and fresh water tanks leaving the owner stranded at a site for a couple weeks. All the same touchscreens, level systems, inverters and other items fail at the same rate. These are outliers just like any other brand. My point is Fuzions are worth looking at if the features and floor plan are what you like. If you buy from a quality dealer you will be satisfied I’m the end-this is the most important variable in my opinion. RVs are like dogs-just about every breed is the best to someone and a good one can be found in any breed that will love you for life

We own a Thunderbolt because it had the floor plan we wanted and the specs we needed. It’s one of the few toy haulers with a 21k GVWR.

If you want full access with slides in the only option I am aware of is the new Cyclone 4214. Quite different design to accomplish the same thing but I applaud the ingenuity.
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Old 05-19-2020, 09:25 AM   #10
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Not going to lie, the GD 376 is a beautiful beast! It's heavy too! I want to walk around one. Drawback beside sleeping on the couch between stays is access with the slides closed. It's a mansion on wheels though. Thank you and Palmeris
Both couches do fold out into nice queen sized beds. I know it is not the same as the nice bed though.

A lot will depend on how you use your RV. Do you often travel and do quick overnights? If so then this might not be a good unit. However, if you travel occasionally and spend longer times in a single site/area then it might not be much of an issue. The thing with RV's is that there is not right or wrong answer, it is usually about how you plan on using it.

In my last RV I had no slides and it was very nice for quick overnights. On my new unit I can not access my bedroom or bathroom without opening one of my slides. I do a moderate amount of quick overnights and I do not find this to be a problem. If I park in a fairly level spot I can can use the hydraulic levels in manual and be level and open up in less then 5 min. If I need to unhook, I can still be set up in less then 10 min. Of course those numbers are with no hook ups.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:21 AM   #11
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Grand Design has discontinued the 376. You mentioned you heard quality issues with Fuzion. As a former full timer, avid recreational RVer, and also I transport fivers for customers so I have pretty broad experience of first hand owner opinions.

Fuzions are on par with the Grand Designs. GD just seems to have the most aggressive internet scrubbing service. Most every Fuzion owner I have dealt with have been extremely satisfied and report the same number of issues as any GD owner. Not digging on GD but I have seen firsthand the same cracked sidewalls, flattened leaf springs, and even dropped black and fresh water tanks leaving the owner stranded at a site for a couple weeks. All the same touchscreens, level systems, inverters and other items fail at the same rate. These are outliers just like any other brand. My point is Fuzions are worth looking at if the features and floor plan are what you like. If you buy from a quality dealer you will be satisfied Iím the end-this is the most important variable in my opinion. RVs are like dogs-just about every breed is the best to someone and a good one can be found in any breed that will love you for life

We own a Thunderbolt because it had the floor plan we wanted and the specs we needed. Itís one of the few toy haulers with a 21k GVWR.

If you want full access with slides in the only option I am aware of is the new Cyclone 4214. Quite different design to accomplish the same thing but I applaud the ingenuity.
I love my dog A buddy of mine has a Fuzion 373 (his 2nd one) and it's beautiful! The only problems he's had with it would be the same with just about any new RV. I really like the layout of the Fuzion 410, but wanted to see what else was out there. Right now I'm working on a couple of "known" facts. My wife will want to use the bathroom within the first 2 hours of the trip. She doesn't like the idea of sleeping on the couch (even if it's a fold out bed), and I want to bring my motorcycle. We'll talk it out, decide what's important, and she'll get whatever she wants.
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Old 05-20-2020, 02:41 AM   #12
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Both couches do fold out into nice queen sized beds. I know it is not the same as the nice bed though.

A lot will depend on how you use your RV. Do you often travel and do quick overnights? If so then this might not be a good unit. However, if you travel occasionally and spend longer times in a single site/area then it might not be much of an issue. The thing with RV's is that there is not right or wrong answer, it is usually about how you plan on using it.

In my last RV I had no slides and it was very nice for quick overnights. On my new unit I can not access my bedroom or bathroom without opening one of my slides. I do a moderate amount of quick overnights and I do not find this to be a problem. If I park in a fairly level spot I can can use the hydraulic levels in manual and be level and open up in less then 5 min. If I need to unhook, I can still be set up in less then 10 min. Of course those numbers are with no hook ups.
Of course the intent is to do long trips. I've been on a schedule my entire life and the "idea" of full time really appeals to me. Go where we want, stay as long as we want, and go somewhere else with the only restriction of reserving a site or boondocking. That being said, I also know the "idea" and the reality may be completely different only to have an RV that sits several weeks at a time and is only used on weekends. Luckily, we have a few years to put together what we want and how we intend to use it. I'm toying with getting the truck first (F250/2500 or F350/3500, make, model, color, single or dual axle, etc all for another thread) and just staying with our Open Range for a few weeks/months of full time to get a good feel for what's important in a 5th wheel or even if we want a 5th wheel before dropping the extra coin. And I get to have a new truck! Thanks for the input.
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Old 05-20-2020, 08:17 AM   #13
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Down side is you have to open the slides to access any of it. .
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Originally Posted by Sauced Hog View Post
Not going to lie, the GD 376 is a beautiful beast! Drawback beside sleeping on the couch between stays is access with the slides closed. It's a mansion on wheels though. Thank you and Palmeris
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Grand Design has discontinued the 376. .
GD- 2020 model of the 376 has been updated, entry door relocated solves the access issue - also the bed lift can be raised for loading, when lowered it still provides 66 inches of height in the garage, so depending on what you are hauling in it would still allow the bed down for sleeping .
We looked at this model at the tampa super show, its the only mass produced toyhualer currently on the market that we would consider, much better design than the original 376... GD must be listening to the feedback.

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...orplans/376ths
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Old 05-20-2020, 09:25 AM   #14
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GD- 2020 model of the 376 has been updated, entry door relocated solves the access issue - also the bed lift can be raised for loading, when lowered it still provides 66 inches of height in the garage, so depending on what you are hauling in it would still allow the bed down for sleeping .
We looked at this model at the tampa super show, its the only mass produced toyhualer currently on the market that we would consider, much better design than the original 376... GD must be listening to the feedback.

https://www.granddesignrv.com/showro...orplans/376ths
Good to hear about the redesign. I was told last year it was going away-I did not want to speak negatively about the floor plan but yes it was riddled with issues and had the least storage of any Momentum model. I looked at your link the only criticism I have of the new layout is I wish they would have flipped the pantry/washer closet into the bedroom. Otherwise tremendous improvement! I still think the new Cyclone has the best rear bedroom layout I’ve seen-especially if you camp with more than 2 people. We hate having to shut down our living room to put our kids to bed.

We shop here in Florida as well-we keep looking to trade in our 2016 but can’t find a compelling reason to swap out. In our shopping we have found that GD goes for about 10-20% higher than most other comparable brands (Voltage, T-Bolt, Cyclone, Fuzion, etc) when new. When shopping used they are identical prices compared to the same brands-sometimes CHEAPER if at a non-Grand Design dealer lot. So while we would definitely consider a GD product it would be a year or two old to avoid that extra depreciation.
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