Community Forums

melon · 01-09-2007, 07:14 PM

Due to some gentle persuasion from Sean I have decided to throw this one to the masses and see what the general response would be. Here is the deal. We have a 1970 Bronco that weighs in at a whopping 3700 lbs. with a minimal lift and 32 inch tires. I have no problem getting it into the trailer, the only problem I have is the weight. With the trailer weighting in at 12500 or so and the Bronco at 3700 that brings the grand total to 16200 without any water, fuel, food or amenities. Add all that into the mix and I max out at probably just under 18000 if I am lucky. Now I have already gone through the tranny and I have been assured the replacement one I installed could more than handle the load. My concern now is everything else coming apart, especially a trailer rated at 15000 in California (16000 in AZ). I now some of you guys haul a lot of heavy things like Jeeps and racecars. What am I missing here?

Rod

melon · 01-09-2007, 07:14 PM

Due to some gentle persuasion from Sean I have decided to throw this one to the masses and see what the general response would be. Here is the deal. We have a 1970 Bronco that weighs in at a whopping 3700 lbs. with a minimal lift and 32 inch tires. I have no problem getting it into the trailer, the only problem I have is the weight. With the trailer weighting in at 12500 or so and the Bronco at 3700 that brings the grand total to 16200 without any water, fuel, food or amenities. Add all that into the mix and I max out at probably just under 18000 if I am lucky. Now I have already gone through the tranny and I have been assured the replacement one I installed could more than handle the load. My concern now is everything else coming apart, especially a trailer rated at 15000 in California (16000 in AZ). I now some of you guys haul a lot of heavy things like Jeeps and racecars. What am I missing here?

Rod

WWFan · 01-09-2007, 08:06 PM

Hey Rod: I'm gonna steal some material from the Hooligan site (who basically plagerized it from the "other site"

) and set your mind at ease. Your Broncky is about 300# less than our Jeep, and we finally got all setup to haul it (See This Thread). The ONE THING I'd do if I were you is go the 16" wheel & tire route- it's a given at this point.

Here's some of the chatter...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The CHP weigh station on the 101 in Thousand Oaks told me that DGVW is required for infraction of Division 15 (the "over limits" section), and that the GCVW and GVWR listed on light trucks by the mfg is not a legal weight definition.

Declared Gross Vehicle Weight- Document for commercial class vehicles that states capacities. Here's the PDF form if you are bored: click me! Even states "Pickups Excluded".

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From the CHP boys out at the Morongo scales. Per their CHP Department Policy, CHP does not get involved with weight related issues unless there is a major accident and weight might be an issue. Was told that the logic behind it was in fact that all trucks are underrated for liability reasons. For example, an F250 might only have a 12k towing rate but can actually hand 17k before "things" start breaking. Thus, the only cites they will issue on anything is a driving out of class license. Also, the Toy Hauler Trailers and fivers are not considered recreational vehicles. They are in fact trailers.

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Phone with CHP Commercial Enforcement in Sacramento who gave the following summary:

They DO NOT enforce GVW issues at all with the RV/Toy hauler crowd. Way too time consuming, factory ratings are often incorrect. Apparently people have won court cases with regards to the GVW issue in court.

But they will enforce:

Licensing - Class A (non commerical) will be the minimum for the big fivers. No actual talk on increasing enforcement on them unless it is a station level directive.
Speed Violatinos - CHP is not becoming more "aware" unless on a station level directive.
Breaking Distance Violations (26454 VC) if involved in an accident.
Length Violations - Remember, no more than 65 feet.
Weight Violation Enforcement - Can only be done by verifying that the weight is violating the actual axle weight limit. This would have to be done at a weigh station. If the weigh station is more than five miles away, you can't be ordered to go to one. Once there, you would have to determine what the actual axle max load is. Good luck on the toyhaulers and fivers.

However this does not mean that you can't get some overzealous CHP Officer who is going to give you the "Don't confuse your rights with my authority" journey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

In a nutshell, BrianZZZ and a few others have determined that the limiting factor of any vehicle is the tire load (I personally think it's the axle ratings), which if you were to go with the Michelin XPS Ribs, you'd get 3042# per tire, which easily puts you a little over your 6000# (x3) axles rating. With 18,000# on just your axles, now you get to add what your "normal" pin weight would be, and I'm guessing at somewhere around 2000-3000#. More than enough to haul your Broncky. Of course, the legal way is to get your rig re-stickered, which by some inside help, I was able to do with mine. My understanding is that with the newer coaches they'll prolly offer it as an option.

I don't know about the LE, but one of the things that I learned from WW in the process of getting my 18k sticker for our SLC was that the SLC's frame is actually rated for 24k- yes....24,000 lbs!

The other issue you've got is your TV...now that I can't help you with, but the amount of $$$'s vs. a MH would afford you quite the TV setup, if you so choose. After finally getting the Jeep in our SLC, the F350KR did a great job- better than I expected- we only went from 50-55mph up Cajon to 45mph.

The only other thing is your license class...figure it out soon and we can do that together! I'm studying as we 'speak'.

Good luck to ya...sure glad to see you around these parts again, amigo! I think you owe us some pics of the kiddos...I bet they're growing like weeds! And say 'hi' to FabDeb for us!

Sean

Vette Racer · 01-09-2007, 08:10 PM

Rod

The only way you are going to know where you stand is to load it up and go to the scales. I know the trailer is going to be overloaded but the main thing is the axles and tires. Load it and see where you are at, then we can talk. I'm 600 over the trailer GVW when loaded but way under the axle and tire loading. See where you are at.

On edit, I see that Sean beat me to the punch but with all his quotes its almost as I said. Go weigh it.

Grizwald2 · 01-09-2007, 08:23 PM

Rod first off it's good to here from you. Glad you found time to post. Second tell Fab Deb and the little ones hi.

My opinion on this is that the power of our current trucks will haul the weight and I'm sure the WW will handle it (I would want 16's)

My take is braking. I don't trust my reaction time and the trucks ability to stop now with just a couple of quads in the dang thing. People drive like *** in California and for those reasons I would be white Knuckled even with a tow boss. I'm at the max trailer I will ever tow unless a used semi came into my life.

Power and transmission upgrades are great for keeping the thing moving but stopping is where all the problems occur.

With the power these new diesel trucks are running now and the 40+ ft trailers that are available we will constantly see people buying large trailers and trying to make due with the daily driver ¾ or 1 ton trucks. 30 years ago we had ¾ and 1 ton trucks and people would never have considered trying to tow 24-25 thousand pounds. My dad was a long haul truck driver and did not feel very comfortable towing an 8, 000 pound boat with his ¾ Ford.

I don't even think a super brake upgrade is enough......For me its going to have to be a used semi that will stop like nothing is even back there before I will feel comfortable with anything more than my two quads in the back of mine.

Vette Racer · 01-09-2007, 08:36 PM

You know Griz

Until I redid my brakes on mine I thought the same way you did but after that, I tend to change my mind a bit as to the stopping. Before, I thought the trailer didn't exhibit much stopping ability, but after, boy what a difference, now the trailer will stop the truck instead of the opposite. So now I tend to agree if your trailer brakes are working properly then all your truck brakes need to do is stop the truck. I guarantee that my trailer never had brakes like this until I redid them, not from day one.

melon · 01-09-2007, 08:43 PM

Thank You one and all for the input. Sean and Griz, I would put pics of the rug rats up with this post, but it takes too long to get my pics approved. What's the deal with that? It's not like a upload porn!!

Anyway, as far as I knew, I thought the brakes were rated for 18000lbs. At least that's what I hear, but who knows. As far as the weight, dose it really matter if I go over 1500 lbs? I know I am going to get a rash of cr@p for that statement, but really, what's the difference from 16000 to 17500?

And another thing, Sean, when you tow in the summer loaded, do you know how hot your tranny gets? I only noticed this in the summer months, but my tranny temp gauge never moved from the middle before, now sometimes it creeps up to just under the yellow every once and a while. When should I worry about that? When it went out the temp gauge didn't even move, now cruising up Cajon it get half way to yellow. Anyway else get this?

Rod

Grizwald2 · 01-09-2007, 08:47 PM

I here you Tom. I plan to regrease (Don't trust the factory grease job on the bearings) and inspect and adjust the brakes this spring. I also still have the stock tires on the truck. Those will be gone soon also. I still think I have a power steering /brake boost problem with the truck (it wines and brakes fades a little after a long freeway run). I have already complained to Chevy but the old can not dupe bla bla. I'm going in and yelling safety of flight next time and not excepting it until they replace the power steering and brake boost. I still feel the need for a simi before I tow anymore than I have now. I know what you mean about the trailer stopping the truck. I can do that too with the prodigy. Still don't have a warm fuzzy about it all though.

Don

Grizwald2 · 01-09-2007, 08:52 PM

Rod do you have an aftermarket cooler for your tranny. My allison would get pretty warm in the summer time and I installed one. It helped alot. Runs in the normal range all the time now.

melon · 01-09-2007, 09:05 PM

I still have a stock cooler, but I did move it out from behind the bumper and fog lights. I don't know if that made much of a difference. Any suggestion on aftermarket coolers? I have seen a couple different ones in Pep Boys, one had a fan. My tranny repair guy mentioned if it still heats up to put one on, I can imagine he will want both my kids as a deposit.

Rod

melon · 01-09-2007, 09:07 PM

BTW, waht does it take to get all my little campfires lit up on the left side like Sean?

Grizwald2 · 01-09-2007, 09:09 PM

Just go to the Ford fourm and see what people are using. I would definatly sugest one though!!! Get ready their not cheap!

Griz

melon · 01-09-2007, 09:15 PM

You know, my tires are the real killer now. I went out and checked, why do they only put C load rate tires on? That is almost embarrassing.
Sorry Griz, I forfot your a "Like A Rock" guy.lol
Rod

Vette Racer · 01-09-2007, 09:27 PM

Boy, you know, first, a cooler for the Allison? I don't use an extra one and out here in 100 degree heat mine (temp gage) never moves unless I'm climbing for a long way, then never over 230 on a long long grade, really loaded.

About adjusting trailer brakes, think about this.

Take a look at how the brakes work, a lever with the magnet grabs hold of the drum and pulls the brakes into the drum. Yes, there is an adjustment BUT, your brake shoes are only so thick, not like cars. (only 3/16th) So, if you really look at it and think about it, it doesn't make much sense to worry about adjustment, once they are set, they could wear out and still make contact to the drum. After looking at this, I now have to take with a grain of salt the people talking about adjusting their brakes on a trailer. I just don't see the need. Actually, if you want more aggressive brakes, you should leave the adjustment looser. That way it gives the brakes a longer throw before they engage.

IMO!