12 volt refrigerator, yes or no

[Sbrownstein]

Originally Posted by Rindfussg

Then why doesn't it come with bigger suitable bstteries from the factory ? Aren't campersc meant for over nighting ?

Actually, many are not and come with a converter that is too small and not enough house battery capacity for even overnight boondocking. Depends on the manufacturer and price point. My class A came with a residential reefer and 4 deep cycle 120 AH batteries. It will go at least 24 hours.

The units that have smaller, lower cost 12 volt reefers are often not as well spec'd.

[Cumminsfan]

One of the reasons RV manufactures are installing 12V fridges is cost.
12V are around 2/3 to 3/4 the cost of a Dometic or Norcold absorption fridge.
They are much easier to install so labor is less.
No cutout on the exterior for venting needed. and in a slide thats 2 holes. Plus the vent cover cost. No propane line to run either.

No hole to cut in the roof and no vent to install and caulk.

And the manufacture gets to keep the same MSRP.

Just like with the solid steps that buyers love or hate. No welding in a support bracket. No cutting out the skirting and adding trim pieces. Cost is close so they make more $$$.

[Jay D.]

i hear a lot about how wonderful solar panels are. it really depends on where you are and what time you are there. we boondock a lot and being on the west there are a lot of trees. you may only have sun a very short time and then there are cloudy days and mountains. they seem sketchy to depend on.
Jay D.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by Rindfussg

Then why doesn't it come with bigger suitable bstteries from the factory ? Aren't campersc meant for over nighting ?

Travel trailers for the most part are delivered with Marine grade grp24 batteries, which are not suitable for boondocking regardless of the type of fridge in the trailer. These batteries are rated in CCA not amphrs and usually can store 50ah or less. Some manufacturers allow buyers to option in better batteries, and most all dealers allow buyers to upgrade batteries at time of purchase. IMHO, neither of these options make good money sense. You can buy the batteries you want aftermarket and easily install them yourself for half the price.

[bneukam]

You can also put me in the “ smash the generator “ category.

All campgrounds should have limits on there use. Unfortunately, most federal campgrounds do not.

Send letters, and make phone calls to our land managers to put an end to this practice

[Kmlac]

The advantage of a 12v compressor fridge over an absorption is not shutting down when the trailer is too far out of level. Absorption fridges will turn off if the trail is more than a few degrees out of level. For many of use that camp off-grid in the mountains this can be a game changer.


Yes a 12v compressor fridge will draw more power, but for some of us that already have the solar/LiFePO setup not too much of a big deal.


No, I do not have one yet as my 120v/propane generally still works.

[btgilles]

I have 3 12v deep cycles, would have gone 6v if I could have fit 4 batteries. Just the same, my 3 12v batteries have gone for 5-7 days before I got a 50 qatt solar kit at Harbor Freight, now my batteries are topped off before noon.
Once my propane side by side croaks, I'll be looking to replace it with 12v compressor Fridge so I don't have to worry how level it is. When I make the switch I'll put 200-300 watts of solar on the roof to allow for shady days.
For now I park with drivers side facing south and place panels on that side where they get sun almost all day. Boondocking dream

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Kmlac

The advantage of a 12v compressor fridge over an absorption is not shutting down when the trailer is too far out of level. Absorption fridges will turn off if the trail is more than a few degrees out of level. For many of use that camp off-grid in the mountains this can be a game changer.


Yes a 12v compressor fridge will draw more power, but for some of us that already have the solar/LiFePO setup not too much of a big deal.


No, I do not have one yet as my 120v/propane generally still works.

I've not had one issue in the last 30 years using absorption fridges due to being out of level. I run with them on when travelling and I level within reason when setting up.....5 different RV's so far. 95% boondockingin the mountains.

The power that RV's are starting to require for proper boondocking is getting massive these days......Even with my absorption fridge, I have 4 6V batteries (450 AH's) and one 170W solar panel (with a second a likely addition) just to be able to camp comfortably for 4-5 days in cool weather.

People are faced with running generators (which I am NOT a fan of) or having truly massive solar/battery setups that run into many thousands of dollars.

I can see some advantages to the 12V fridges for some, but I'm sticking wtith my propane unit and I'm glad my trailer was equipped with one. Sometimes I miss my 1973 Kit Companion where the only thing the battery needed to do was provide power for one 12V light!

2 cents,
Dave

[Marine359]

Just for those who may be curious:
Just based on our experience of the last year (with LiFePo4 battery).
2 hours of propane generator use will provide 2 days of 12v fridge use plus all other loads.
1 spare 20lb propane tank delivers about 30 hours of generator time.
We boondock over 80% and never had to refill our spare propane tank in the last year.
We probably could replace 50% of generator time with 300w of solar, only because sunshine is more scarce on east coast.
So, the 12v fridge has been less of an inconvenience than we thought it would be.

[Rindfussg]

All that added hassle and expense to run a 12v fridge? Why? Propane has worked fine for v decades.

[Marine359]

Many tt are now being delivered to dealers with 12v compressor fridge, as was mine. There then is the choice to buy it as is or do a dealer swap out for an absorption fridge at a chillingly prohibitive price. Some manufacturers offer absorption if you order new from factory. But, if you can save $8k by buying off dealer lot, I can’t see an argument against that. If we were ever to order a new tt from the factory, of corse I’d option in an absorption fridge. Until then, we’re still happy campers.

[garyb1st]

Why the 12v refrigerator made sense for us.

The cost to replace our 12 cu ft Dometic that failed. $4,000.
Cost for new 12v Unique Appliance 13 cu ft refrigerator. $1,600

The $2,400 we saved more than paid for our two Lithium batteries. The refrigerator is wired directly to the batteries so no inverter necessary.
The refrigerator has a smaller foot print and weighs about 100 lbs less.
The batteries are a bit smaller than the lead acid and about 90 lbs less.
So we added capacity which is alway nice.

We purchased two 100 watt panels and made a solar suitcase. In full sun we can get about 50 - 60 Ah's of power. Our daily needs are about 100 - 125 Ah's. So we need to run the generator.

The down side of lithium. Our old WFCO converter will not fully charge the batteries when using the generator. If we run the generator for 2 - 3 hours before we have full sun, then the solar will top them off. Otherwise it will only bring our lithiums to about 80%.

I'm not aware of any Converter that will charge both the lead acid chassis and lithium house batteries without other issues. One option is a converter that has a switch option that be used for either lead acid or lithium but not together. I don't fully understand it and hopefully with increasing use of lithium, that issue will be resolved. However, that issue is more a problem with motorhomes than trailers.

The engine alternator while we're traveling will fully charge them in a few hours. Example, when running the engine to bring the slide in, the alternator is putting in more than 50 Ah's. However, I've read that there is a risk of overheating the engine alternator when idling because of the significant draw from the lithium. So as a precaution we limit the run time when not underway to 15 minutes. We haven't done anything to protect the alternator yet and I'm not convinced it's really necessary.

Real life example of use. We've been dry camping for 3 days at a state park that has very limited generator hours. So far we've run the generator about 4 hours. We've also only had the solar suitcase out 1 day for about 6 hours. This morning after one day with no solar and maybe an hour of generator run time, we have about 45% remaining capacity in our 210 Ah's.

As an aside, I have an iMac computer that takes about 6-7 Ah's an hour to run. That's more than the 4-5 Ah's refrigerator uses on average. Almost all our lights have been changed to LEDs so we are pretty efficient. On top of that we usually rely on puck lights in the evening. The LEDs are pretty bright.

Bottom line. The wife loves the new refrigerator which actually cools better than the old Dometic.

[LargeMarge]

We boondock exclusively.
.
During decades of different camp rigs, we never saw a need for a fridge.
Then, a couple-three years ago, our chums were leaving full-time land-based travel to live-aboard a boat.
We acquired their SnoMaster 61qt dual-zone chest fridge-freezer.
.
We like it because:
* steel case
* extremely low-draw on 12vdc
* switchable to both fridge or both freezer or vicey-versy
.
Cons:
After a couple-three weeks, we realized the reason it was nearly-new after our chums owned it a couple-three years overlanding...
.
...most folks are rarely more than a few minutes from a grocery.
After a couple-three weeks, we noticed the SnoMaster gravitating to a horizontal catch-all space, the equivalent of a NordicTrack clothes-rack shoved in the corner of the bedroom.

[Rindfussg]

Originally Posted by garyb1st

Why the 12v refrigerator made sense for us.

The cost to replace our 12 cu ft Dometic that failed. $4,000.
Cost for new 12v Unique Appliance 13 cu ft refrigerator. $1,600

The $2,400 we saved more than paid for our two Lithium batteries. The refrigerator is wired directly to the batteries so no inverter necessary.
The refrigerator has a smaller foot print and weighs about 100 lbs less.
The batteries are a bit smaller than the lead acid and about 90 lbs less.
So we added capacity which is alway nice.

We purchased two 100 watt panels and made a solar suitcase. In full sun we can get about 50 - 60 Ah's of power. Our daily needs are about 100 - 125 Ah's. So we need to run the generator.

The down side of lithium. Our old WFCO converter will not fully charge the batteries when using the generator. If we run the generator for 2 - 3 hours before we have full sun, then the solar will top them off. Otherwise it will only bring our lithiums to about 80%.

I'm not aware of any Converter that will charge both the lead acid chassis and lithium house batteries without other issues. One option is a converter that has a switch option that be used for either lead acid or lithium but not together. I don't fully understand it and hopefully with increasing use of lithium, that issue will be resolved. However, that issue is more a problem with motorhomes than trailers.

The engine alternator while we're traveling will fully charge them in a few hours. Example, when running the engine to bring the slide in, the alternator is putting in more than 50 Ah's. However, I've read that there is a risk of overheating the engine alternator when idling because of the significant draw from the lithium. So as a precaution we limit the run time when not underway to 15 minutes. We haven't done anything to protect the alternator yet and I'm not convinced it's really necessary.

Real life example of use. We've been dry camping for 3 days at a state park that has very limited generator hours. So far we've run the generator about 4 hours. We've also only had the solar suitcase out 1 day for about 6 hours. This morning after one day with no solar and maybe an hour of generator run time, we have about 45% remaining capacity in our 210 Ah's.

As an aside, I have an iMac computer that takes about 6-7 Ah's an hour to run. That's more than the 4-5 Ah's refrigerator uses on average. Almost all our lights have been changed to LEDs so we are pretty efficient. On top of that we usually rely on puck lights in the evening. The LEDs are pretty bright.

Bottom line. The wife loves the new refrigerator which actually cools better than the old Dometic.

How could it cost $4k to replace an absorption fridge? Doing a quick internet search a dometic Americana 2 2 way fridge is $1500 at camping world And a new Furrion 12v fridge is $1500? $1500 for a 12v fridge is robbery. They are really just cheap dorm style fridges with a 12v compressor instead of 120v. My full size freezer on the bottom fridge at home didn't cost $1500.
I can't see the benefit of a bit faster cooling outweighing the need to add expensive batteries solar panels chargers carrying a generator and gas cans in truck. And the noise cost and pollution of running a generator 4 hours a day???
I despise hearing generators and a lot of campgrounds don't allow one. 2x way fridges are a tiny risk for a fire. But carrying gas cans in the back of a covered pick up bed is a major risk of explosion!!! How much gas does it take to run a generator 4 hours a day? It's certainly not green! Everyone keeps saying that 12v fridges are "efficient? How is turning gasoline into 12v power to ruin a fridge efficient or green?. And 3/4 of the folks advocating for 12v fridges here mention generators! In 40 years of camping I have never had a problem boondocking 2 or 3 days with 2 cheap lead acid batteries and running cpap all night water pump and TV for a while on an inverter. .
Replacing 2 cheap batteries and a 20lb propane bottle with $2k of batteries $500 of solar and controller. $300 dc to dc charger and a $600 portable generator and gasoline seems nuts to me. How is that an upgrade?