12 volt refrigerator, yes or no

[dsrace]

Originally Posted by 1stimerveer

I couldn't agree more... We have boondocked a number of times under varying situations. I have found that our absorption refrigerators take the load off of our generator, when running on propane, allowing us to power other appliances by our generator.

Having said that I think I would prefer a refridge with a compressor in that it runs less than 1/2 the time and is powered by the batteries. The batteries would act as a buffer, leaving the bulk of the generator output to run the AC, Microwave and converter. Our absorption refridge draws about 700 watts when running on 110v ac power.

As for efficiencies, each individual has to make choices, based on the situations they will encounter, and the how often will they choose to encounter those situations based on the availability of propane or gasoline.
Solar panels would make the case for 12 V compressor refridge units even stronger.

I doubt that cost per btu or cost per kilowatt related to relative efficiency is even an issue.

That's the way I see it. In my humble opinion.

Safe travels to all..

i understand what you meant but i bet someone will question that

a couple pages back i posted links to actual data logs of amp hr usage for everyone wanting a solid starting point to decide which would work best for there use. solid information imo and as chance would have it...... that is the very fridge i optioned in due to those data logs. i have ran across a post or two of other manufacturers fridges that were a bit higher on draw. now i am no expert or up to date on the compressors but i thought i read that there were only ( non china ) 2 manufacturers of the 12 systems.

having said this, i too doubt that for most people the cost per btu or per kwh effect there decision on any of the 3 styles. practical application is the true decider or what rv floor plan they liked the most that was in stock and could be financed for 144 months

[dsrace]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

What would be useful IMO would be a factual, unbiased comparison of 12V compressor fridges (in the common 10 cu ft. size) compared to the standard 8 cu ft. absorption fridge also showing 12V power consumption and perhaps a recommended battery/solar setup for the compressor fridge.

I'm sure the information exists in the body of this 21 page thread. Then it could be stickied and may be useful to people considering which way to go. I'm sticking with my absorption fridge based on the available data and my usage but like all things RV, there is no right or wrong answer for everyone.

Cheers,
Dave

i provided two links a couple pages back of actual data logs, of the power draw on the dometic 12v comp fridge. i posted them for anyone interested. to determine a very close starting point on batteries and solar needs. all if they were considering the 12v system for there application.


this info was provided in the 2nd link i posted. the test was with a 100 ah lithium so obviously one would need a 200 ah agm or lead acid to do the same.

[Fridge Defend]

Originally Posted by Rindfussg

Can I ask why you would ever run an absorbtion fridge on 110vac off grid instead of on propane?
That's a scenario I don't understand.

This is good question that deserves a good answer, in our case we have solar that we do not use if our batteries are charged. Thus, we run our fridge off of the 120VAC to save propane. Also, we run off of 120VAC when driving.

We cut our propane usage by about 35%.

Thanks for asking

[garywilson]

Boondocking?

As I have several times in the past, I will be staying two week at the GSMNP, the most visited NP in the U.S.

No water, no electricity, no dump (dump is 6 miles away). Most sites are shaded, so solar is usually NA.

Generator hours 8AM-8PM. Days I go into town for a show or sightseeing local attractions (Clingmans, Cades, etc) there won't be any generator time. Some days generated time will be limited to a couple of hours.

I'll keep my absorption refrigerator, thanks.

[garywilson]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

Joe - my next camper is going to have a 12v refrigerator. Everyone I talk to say they cool a lot faster and better. They are also safer.

Here is some information that will answer some of your questions I think.

https://youtu.be/HNCnwXOh1ng

From Josh who made the video Aug 2020, made this update/comment 'three months ago'..

"Pinned by Josh the RV Nerd at Bish's RV
Josh the RV Nerd at Bish's RV
3 months ago
Hey Everybody!! I want to begin with saying I don't feel this video has aged well and I frankly have considered taking it down. When this video was released 12v Fridges were very new to the towable RV industry (in the mainstream segment at least). The info shared in this video was all something that was provided to my by a supplier/vendor, but has proven to be theoretical and has not held up well in the world of practical application.

In our newer videos we've made an effort to provide better expectations for clients and hope you appreciate the continued commitment to providing you with GOOD and REAL information whenever possible.
-Josh"

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by garywilson

Boondocking?

As I have several times in the past, I will be staying two week at the GSMNP, the most visited NP in the U.S.

No water, no electricity, no dump (dump is 6 miles away). Most sites are shaded, so solar is usually NA.

Generator hours 8AM-8PM. Days I go into town for a show or sightseeing local attractions (Clingmans, Cades, etc) there won't be any generator time. Some days generated time will be limited to a couple of hours.

I'll keep my absorption refrigerator, thanks.

This is true for all eastern NPs that I know. Some even have shorter generator hours. For example Acadia is 8am-10am and 4pm- 6pm as I recall. If you’re staying for more than a couple of days, even people with absorption fridges will more than likely have to do generator runs. But, with a LiFePo4 battery, run time is very short; 60 amphrs input into batt per hour if you have a good charger. There is a lot of canopy, so roof solar doesn’t work well, and it’s even hard to find a spot to place a portable panel unshaded. We did notice that although we have a compressor fridge (not making a pitch here, ours came with one), it seemed we were running our generator less than the people who had absorption fridges. It’s easy to spot: rigs with absorption fridges have sidewall vents; compressor rigs do not. The TT parked next to us at Acadia ran his generator twice a day, an hour each time. We ran for two hours every other day. Of course, if you don’t have LFP, you have to run your generator much longer to store the same amount of amphrs. He had three kids, and a Single 100ah sealed LA. so he was probably using a fair amount of juice on the rig unrelated to his fridge. We talked, and afterwards he said he wanted to upgrade to LFP to solve his power shortage. The moral of this story is, if you have a big enough bucket, you don’t have to run a generator. (Much if ever) no matter what kind of fridge you have.

[dsrace]

Originally Posted by Marine359

This is true for all eastern NPs that I know. Some even have shorter generator hours. For example Acadia is 8am-10am and 4pm- 6pm as I recall. If you’re staying for more than a couple of days, even people with absorption fridges will more than likely have to do generator runs. But, with a LiFePo4 battery, run time is very short; 60 amphrs input into batt per hour if you have a good charger. There is a lot of canopy, so roof solar doesn’t work well, and it’s even hard to find a spot to place a portable panel unshaded. We did notice that although we have a compressor fridge (not making a pitch here, ours came with one), it seemed we were running our generator less than the people who had absorption fridges. It’s easy to spot: rigs with absorption fridges have sidewall vents; compressor rigs do not. The TT parked next to us at Acadia ran his generator twice a day, an hour each time. We ran for two hours every other day. Of course, if you don’t have LFP, you have to run your generator much longer to store the same amount of amphrs. He had three kids, and a Single 100ah sealed LA. so he was probably using a fair amount of juice on the rig unrelated to his fridge. We talked, and afterwards he said he wanted to upgrade to LFP to solve his power shortage. The moral of this story is, if you have a big enough bucket, you don’t have to run a generator. (Much if ever) no matter what kind of fridge you have.

correct and all comes down to personal application again. have you been reading up on the new graphine sulfur batteries and the diamond batteries? going to be interesting to see if lithium ion prices drop a little more.

if there's great shade but a decent breeze every now and then ....maybe one of these on the roof?? https://www.amazon.com/LOYALHEARTDY-...66207093&psc=1

[30ripr21]

I have a 12V 10cu.ft. in my TT, I love it, gets cold fast and stays cold while towing, runs about 6 hours on the lead acid battery and runs fine when towing and the trailer plugged into the truck. I feel a bit safer with it compared to leaving a propane tank open.

[Rindfussg]

You never boondock right?

[1stimerveer]

Originally Posted by dsrace

correct and all comes down to personal application again. have you been reading up on the new graphine sulfur batteries and the diamond batteries? going to be interesting to see if lithium ion prices drop a little more.

if there's great shade but a decent breeze every now and then ....maybe one of these on the roof?? https://www.amazon.com/LOYALHEARTDY-...66207093&psc=1

It always amazes me when people disagree about the best solution to a problem.. Should you buy a 40 TT or 5th Wheel or a Teardrop?? We all decide at some point what is important to us..

Having said that, I can agree that solar has its place if you really do a lot of boondocking.
From my point of view you might still need a generator if the weather doesn't cooperate. A 12V refridge will run those batteries down, and without lots of battery capacity or some sort of alternative power source you will have to live with the consequences of your choice.

So I suggest you evaluate your camping habits/plans and decide what is best for you.. I have found that with two GC 6Volt batteries, I can get thru a weekend boondock with everything, except my AC unit running. My refrigerator and furnace run on propane and everything else runs on 12v power. Boondocking longer than that might require me to charge up my batteries using my truck or a generator..
Boondocking when the temps are over 90 degrees will require an gen set to run the AC.

If I used a 12v Refridge, I would have to add more batteries (with their added weight) or use another power source to make it thru the weekend.

Something else to consider is that the additional weight and wind resistance of solar panels and weight of additional batteries adds to more fuel use getting your rv to and from campsites. Then add the weight of an gen set for ac operation on hot days.

So each of us has to decide for ourselves and live with the consequences.

I personally think that 12V refrigerators, high tech batteries and solar panels are overrated for the majority of campers and the cost of installing solar with hi tech batteries is, at the present time, extreme, using a 12V refridge is a coin toss decision.

Kind of expensive bragging rights if you ask me..

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by Rindfussg

You never boondock right?

Is boondocking a pre requisite for camping.
Not everyone's into sitting on dirt for several days.

[bobphoenix]

When I bought my camper, the factory fridge was gone and someone before me installed a 2.5 C.F. "Dorm" refrigerator, that run strictly on 120V.

Knowing that my wife and I are both foodies, a dorm fridge would never do, so I started to look for a suitable replacement three way fridge... (Gas, 12V 110V).

For the money, a three way fridge would cost more than the restored camper would be worth... so, I started to look for a 12V... But, there too, pretty pricey and not at all efficient, unless I was on shore power. The power consumption was pretty high as well...

At 12V a 4.5 C.F. fridge pulls down 110 Watts... that's nearly 10 amps!
My converter only puts out 15 amps...

Well, after all was said and done... I am now running a 12V to 110V inverter pushing out 700 watts that I picked up for $45.00 and a 4.5 C.F. Magic Chef fridge that consumes a total of 110 watts (basically .8 amps...)

Yesterday, I hooked up my 700 watt inverter to my car's 525 CCA battery (not charging) and plugged in the fridge and an LED light, (so I could see if the battery died...) I figured the entire load was 120 watts when the fridge was running. After 10 hours, the freezer temp was holding at zero, and I went out and turned the key to start the car... I was expecting the car not to start, but to my surprise, it turned over and started right away... There was plenty of reserve left in the battery.

So, I'll keep my 12v fridge/ cooler as a backup, but for my camper, I'm pretty sold on the Battery/ Inverter situation... (I don't plan on boondocking much and if I do... then I'll use the car's charging system to top off the batteries every 12 hours or so...

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by 1stimerveer

I personally think that 12V refrigerators, high tech batteries and solar panels are overrated for the majority of campers and the cost of installing solar with hi tech batteries is, at the present time, extreme, using a 12V refridge is a coin toss decision.:

You are so right that people will disagree depending on their own needs and based on their perspective. If you think you have the right solution for you, then, you do. No argument. But you’re way off base to say it’s right for most campers. Keep in mind, a majority of rvers do not have a rig similar to yours, nor might they share the same camping habits. In fact some people buy rvs that don’t give them the option of NOT upgrading their batteries. 12v refrigerators are not overrated, but they don’t fit into the boondocking camping style without more amphrs in the bucket.

Here’s a fact to chew on: A single 200ah LiFePo4 paired with a 200w solar panel and mppt controller cost less than $1,200. I wouldn’t call that extreme. That ain’t as much as the upcharge to order an rv with an absorption fridge these days. The 12v fridge setup just described will deliver 3 days of boondocking without generator. I know this because I just described my setup which has been performing as I described for almost two years, and 12,000 miles. 50% boondocking.

I find it dangerous or at the worst disingenuous to say what’s good for a majority of campers, because you can be proven wrong in a heartbeat. If you’re the type of camper that goes only from pedestal to pedestal, then you don’t need to spend money for anything to upgrade your rv. Don’t know if that’s a majority of rv owners. I won’t go down that rabbit hole. But I can say that a “majority” of campers are somewhere on a continuum between being happy with the small OEM battery bucket, and upgrading to a bucket size of 400amphrs.

[Marine359]

Originally Posted by dsrace

if there's great shade but a decent breeze every now and then ....maybe one of these on the roof?? https://www.amazon.com/LOYALHEARTDY-...66207093&psc=1

At my advanced age, I’m pretty sure I don’t have the energy to climb up the ladder at every stop to set up that contraption. I barely have the energy to put out my solar panel, and grab a beer from my very cold 12v fridge, and then collapse into a camp chair under the awning. Then, if I had to expend the energy to take it down on travel day, I wouldn’t have enough energy left to drop the coupler on the ball and pull chocks. I’d probably collapse, reach for another beer from my very cold 12v fridge and stay another day.