Best TT brand for light bunk-quarters floorplan?

[UBWan]

Ahhhh... Sounds like I need to do some research and work out the vehicle side of the equation. It's really curious both the car/truck and RV sides of the business do so little to make this information available and the calculations clear. I actively tried to find it and learn and be safe, but still came out ignorant. I guess the industry is geared towards moving units over making us safe.

I'll go do my homework. Much appreciated!

[bneukam]

Originally Posted by UBWan

Ahhhh... Sounds like I need to do some research and work out the vehicle side of the equation. It's really curious both the car/truck and RV sides of the business do so little to make this information available and the calculations clear. I actively tried to find it and learn and be safe, but still came out ignorant. I guess the industry is geared towards moving units over making us safe.



I'll go do my homework. Much appreciated!

Agreed, most truck sales people don’t even know about payload, and where to find it.

[Persistent]

UBWan,


These guys are just giving you a hard time. You have done the math. The numbers look good. There are lots of numbers you can consider, but you have the most important.
The math is correct. When the rubber meets the road, it is the actual weights that matter. Once you have the TT and TV, load them up and visit a CAT scale to get actual weights.
If you do not have possession of the vehicles, use the sticker weight limits as much as possible.
Get the individual vehicle weight limits from the door sticker in the Expedition or the front left sticker on the TT.
If you are still at the planning stage, use published load limits, but be sure to double check the sticker numbers as soon a you have found one you want to buy. Published number can be confusing and sometimes wrong. Individual vehicle stickers are the actual numbers for that vehicle when it left the factory.

There is one additional weight limit you need to consider. The rear axle limit of the Expedition and the tongue weight of the trailer are important.
Published tongue weights are fiction and they change depending on how you load the vehicles.
The usual practice is to cite the tongue weight as 10% of the TT gross weight. The actual can be double that. It depends on many things.
My last two trailers came with twice the published tongue weights. I had to modify the TT's to move weight off the tongue to get it with range of my TV limits.

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead!

[bneukam]

You can still be good on all numbers, and have a proper WDH setup with a less than ideal towing situation.
A TT, with it’s tall walls, over 30’ is a lot to handle for any 1/2 ton truck/SUV.
Travel extensively out west in states with 80 mph limits. Seeing the back end sway of these long trailers traveling at 60 when a large truck goes by at 75 plus is enough for me to back away. Not to be an alarmists, but it’s better to be safe than sorry.

[UBWan]

So I've done some calculations on my vehicle GVWR and GCWR and it looks like I'm ok with those as well. I've done pretty extensive searching for how to calculate axle weight but all the resources I can find all use actual measurements at weigh stations. Since I don't yet have the car or the TT, that's not really possible.

Expedition GVWR and GAWR aren't published anywhere, I'm assuming because they differ between options. I did some Google Images detective work and it looks like the different options and models range from 7200 to 7700 GVWR and all have GAWR or 1905.

5368 Curb weight
+ 700 Passengers
+ 930 Max Tongue load
------------------------------------------------
6998 lb - So looks like there's at least a few hundred pounds of spare capacity in whatever my GVWR will be

14900 GCWR
- 7200 Trailer GVWR
- 5369 Curb weight
- 1000 Hitch weight
- 700 Passengers
------------------------------
632 lb spare

As for the wind concerns I think I'm going to take my chances, especially after watching this video - https://youtu.be/iotsvKYMOCU?t=505

Thanks all for the help. Hope I got all those calculations right.

[tuffr2]

There are too many trailer types for manufactueres to give all the numbers for each type of trailer.

I started towing boats. No sway control needed. Never even heard of WD hitches or sway control towing boats.

After 20 years towing boats I bought a travel trailer.

The travel trailer is a complete different trailer than a boat as towing a boat is a lot easier.

I would say if I had a 9,000lb boat I would tow it with a 150/1500 series truck. A 9,000lb travel trailer needs a 250/2500 series truck.

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by UBWan

14900 GCWR

Are you looking at older Expeditions, by chance? Because your numbers are a little off for the current models. GCWR for the current generation (with towing package), ranges from 15,200-15,500.

[bneukam]

The hitch weight capacity is 930 lbs, or 900 for the max.

Payload will be determined by vehicle configuration, and options. As vehicle payload will be reduced with every option added.

I agree with you that the Expedition is a towing beast, but it has its limits. That video was on a 20’ trailer at 7,000 lbs with only a 10% tongue weight, and it squatted 2.5”, without anyone inside.

With that Passport with a dry hitch weight of 755 lbs you’ll be exceeding your hitch weight after you add a WDH, propane, and batteries, not to mention everything your going to put in the front storage.

[UBWan]

Aren't the propane tanks and battery simply part of my trailer weight in this equation? They must count towards my trailer's 7200lb GVWR, right? Granted, they're putting more weight at the front, but that's just part of the leveling tango, and can be compensated for when leveling. Assuming I'm able to balance out the trailer load right, and even if I max out my trailer's capacity, I think I'm still well within the limits:

930 lb max tongue weight
- 100 lb or so for a typical WDH with sway bars
Gives me 830lb to work with, or 11.5% of a maxed out trailer. Not as much spare capacity as my other numbers but still within the limits.

Again, I'm new to all this so please do point out of I got something wrong. I'm trying to be rigorous and do appreciate the help.

I am a bit more concerned about sway given the length I'm going to be pulling and what I've read above. I'm a fairly cautious driver and pretty level headed in adverse situations. If I know the correct procedure - keep the wheel straight, gradually apply some manual trailer braking - how reasonable is it to expect to be able to apply it when I feel a sway coming on?
Here's a question for y'all - Given that I'm well within the power aspect of my towing limits, how different would a 3/4 ton truck be? It would give me about another 1000lb of curb weight which would even out the equation a bit, but is that really going to be so significant or do I just need to keep an eye on sway in any case?

And of course I do plan to be super rigorous when leveling out the setup, including measuring my actuals at a weigh station. From all I've read that's the best thing I can do to minimize sway in the first place.

Thanks again

[bneukam]

I am probably not explaining this correctly. But 755 lbs dry, plus a conservative 225 lbs for batts, propane, and WDH will give a tongue weight of 980, before you load anything in it. These items are loaded on the front A frame. You’ll be exceeding your hitch weight leaving the dealer.

Everything loaded aft of your axels will reduce tongue weight. Anything you add forward will increase your tongue weight.

The tongue weight is counted against your payload of your TV, and your hitch rating. You’ll need to be at 13% tongue once your fully loaded to be within your limits. Leaving the dealers lot empty, guessing you’ll be over 16%.

I guess you could remove the spare tire if it’s up front and move it to the rear bumper. Adding fresh water to water heater, or fresh water tank depending on its location. Load your personal heavy stuff aft of the axels, but that seems crazy to me. I would want to use the compartments as their intended use.

Hope this makes sense.

[GringoPete]

UBWan, we've pulled both a 36ft Rockwood Ultralight and now a 29ft Passport GT. Rockwood finish quality seemed better, but the Passport is easy to tow. Both trailers were within the specific ratings of our 1/2 ton, but at first we did not use a sway bar, and with the longer trailer it was terrifying down hill and when semis and other trailers passed us. This year I installed a sway bar with the 29 ft, and even in 35mph gusts I still felt more control. Use a sway bar, whatever you get, and enjoy!

[Desert Flyer]

Originally Posted by UBWan

So I've done some calculations on my vehicle GVWR and GCWR and it looks like I'm ok with those as well. I've done pretty extensive searching for how to calculate axle weight but all the resources I can find all use actual measurements at weigh stations. Since I don't yet have the car or the TT, that's not really possible.

Expedition GVWR and GAWR aren't published anywhere, I'm assuming because they differ between options. I did some Google Images detective work and it looks like the different options and models range from 7200 to 7700 GVWR and all have GAWR or 1905.

The goto source I use is Car and Driver. They do road tests and weigh everything, including each wheel, not just front and back axles. But again, each trim level is different and 4WD makes a big difference.

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by UBWan

Assuming I'm able to balance out the trailer load right...
Thanks again

That’s very likely to be a bad assumption. See layout of the trailer dictates where heavy components go (Is the kitchen in the rear, middle or front?), holding tanks, etc. And the layout of the flooplan and design of the storage areas dictate where you can put stuff without resorting to using a water bladder and putting everything in boxes spread about the trailer for travel. My trailer has such a high tongue weight because it has a 60gal fresh water tank right behind the front wall. My only hope to get the tongue weight down would be to load everything begind the axles. But there’s only one small cabinet behind the axles plus a very difficult to access area under the bed. All the other storage is above the axles or forward of the axles. So “balancing” it is going to be very difficult and require putting everything in the bathtub or on my bed...

[shane_the_ee]

Originally Posted by UBWan

I am a bit more concerned about sway given the length I'm going to be pulling and what I've read above. I'm a fairly cautious driver and pretty level headed in adverse situations. If I know the correct procedure - keep the wheel straight, gradually apply some manual trailer braking - how reasonable is it to expect to be able to apply it when I feel a sway coming on?

I have good news for you. If you’re looking at current generation Expeditions, you won’t have to worry about performing the correct sway recovery procedures as the truck will do it automatically. In tow/haul mode, it uses the rear parking sensors to sense how much the trailer is swaying and, if it senses too much sway, it will do all the things you’re supposed to do far faster than you ever could and will give you a warning telling you to slow down and/or change your towing setup.
The bad news is that whole procedure whether done manually or by the tow vehicle only helps recover dangerously swaying trailers. It doesn’t keep the wind from pushing you into the next lane, semi trucks from pushing you all over the place, etc. For that you need tongue weight and a good anti-sway WDH...