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Old 02-10-2020, 04:50 PM   #1
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Design Choice vs Trying to pull one over on us.

I know the title is a little harsh. That's really not me.

Looking at a new TT as the RV show. A few things looked "off" and they gave us "well that's a design choice" each one is a little different. I get that. However, further research has led me to believe, they just ran out or parts...

And to be clear, I'm FINE with design choices and tradeoffs.. Not cool with just not installing something and calling it a design choice. And I wonder if there is any way to find out for sure.

Here are the examples and my opnions.
  • Has large outside kitchen so we loose inside under-counter storage space is a design choice. However, just not putting the pots-n-pans drawer under the oven (that's actually advertised as a feature of the product line) is just not including something that should be there.
  • Not including the bookshelf over the fireplace is a design choice. Mounting the TV above even higher than normal is just sloppy.
  • In a pantry area, on a rig that already has limited storage due to outdoor kitchen mentioned above, not putting a door on one of the forward facing cupboards is just a decision to not put a door in where one is supposed to be. Also a safety hazard.
  • Not putting doors on the cupboards in the bathroom, rendering them somewhat useless is just a choice... not a design choice.

Opinions from the hive mind? I have not taken possession.
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Old 02-10-2020, 05:47 PM   #2
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Just for giggles, I looked around at the same parts on other units from the same coast.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:37 PM   #3
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It does seem odd. Try a different dealer in your area and see what's there.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:43 PM   #4
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As long as people buy the crap they'll keep pushing them out the door! I've learned that in the rv game, if you want to play you have to pay. The cheap brands are made cheaply and just pushed out the door. If you want better quality you need to pay for it. You'll be happier with better quality longer than you'll remember how much you saved by buying a cheap camper. Everyone won't agree, just my experience. Get a fair deal on as good a camper as you can afford and hold the dealer accountable. If they don't work with you find another dealer. Dealers have a lot of flexibility with good customers. You'll be surprised how far kindness and fair dealing will take you. We absolutely love our Flagstaff, and our dealer, neither are perfect but as close as we've been in 45 years of buying these things.
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Desdinova View Post
Just for giggles, I looked around at the same parts on other units from the same coast.
So go buy the one you really want... sometimes “design decision” means “cost cutting choice to make this one cost less”. Kinda like how my Expedition doesn’t have the massaging seats with the quilted leather available on the more expensive ones...
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by shane_the_ee View Post
So go buy the one you really want... sometimes “design decision” means “cost cutting choice to make this one cost less”. Kinda like how my Expedition doesn’t have the massaging seats with the quilted leather available on the more expensive ones...
I get what you're saying but it's not quite the same. What would be the same is if you were not expecting to massaging seats, and it came with NO seats.

We found the model of RV we like. I was getting ready to just have them order me the two doors and a drawer, but then I realized... wait.. I'm not getting a bargain that they can attribute shorting me parts of the rig that should be there.

We're in an awkward position of where we signed a lot of papers, the loan got approved, but the bank actually came back with a better rate so that paperwork needs to be redone. We have NO money in it at this time so we could just cut and run... but.. if I'm making a mountain out of mole hill, I rather stick with this dealer. They are essetially the only ones that carry this brand. Not interested in any other brand or model, and these sell like hotcackes... so they don't really need me business.

We'd like to follow through... I just don't want to get ripped off any more than I'm supposed to be.
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Old 02-10-2020, 11:44 PM   #7
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It does seem odd. Try a different dealer in your area and see what's there.
No one else reasonably close carries the line. This is a keystone infested area... no offence to that group of brands.. but there are litterally 1000's of RV's in too many dealers to count... all carrying the same models.
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Old 02-11-2020, 02:00 AM   #8
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Our recently purchased new trailer didn't have a door where there should have been one over the dinette. So I ordered one from the factory and installed it.
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:12 AM   #9
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Quality Travel Trailer Brands

All good advice above. You did not say what make and model you are looking at. Someone suggested Keystone.
Keystone is bottom of the barrel cheap. If that is what you want, then go for it. There are lots of cheap brands like Keystone or Dutchmen. Here is advice from many with experience. It is about two years old, and many new models have been introduced since. But, it will get you started.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f50/best-value-quality-brand-443427-2.html

I wish you good luck and happy trails ahead!
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:21 AM   #10
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The missing cupboard door is because with the dinette seat there you would not be able to open that door very far. The space under the stove may be filled with plumbing and heating runs that go in different places in the other model. Clearly these are not the same model of trailer, without looking behind that panel there is no way to know if you can purchase the drawer and hardware and install it yourself. You CAN buy the door from the manufacturer and mount it yourself as well as moving the TV down or have the TV moved down under warranty.
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Old 02-12-2020, 10:32 AM   #11
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The missing cupboard door is because with the dinette seat there you would not be able to open that door very far. The space under the stove may be filled with plumbing and heating runs that go in different places in the other model. Clearly these are not the same model of trailer, without looking behind that panel there is no way to know if you can purchase the drawer and hardware and install it yourself. You CAN buy the door from the manufacturer and mount it yourself as well as moving the TV down or have the TV moved down under warranty.


The replacement door is easily reachable even with the table in place (just like the two smaller doors are reachable even though blocked by the dinette seats. All the doors open upwards and have factory support mechanisms. Access is greatly enhanced.
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Old 02-12-2020, 12:54 PM   #12
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Just for giggles, I looked around at the same parts on other units from the same coast.
It appears you are seeing the difference between the "midwest" version and the "west coast" version. You've cut off the "Cliff Jones RV" logo in these pictures. Cliff Jones RV is in Texas, while you appear to be in the soggy Northwest (howdy, neighbor). Forest River (and the other big manufacturers) make two versions of many of their trailers. Forest River sends one version to Texas and a different version out here. If you want the "midwest" version, you'll have to buy it from a midwest dealer...
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Old 02-12-2020, 09:34 PM   #13
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I'd personally seek to have the things added/corrected in the price or would probably walk (depending on the deal you received). Especially the TV which is crooked and too high compared to the second trailer.

Either way, I don't think you will be happy with it as is. Every time you look at not having a door or drawer or TV where you think there should be one, you'll think about it.

Good luck.
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Old 02-13-2020, 12:21 AM   #14
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I'm going to keep updating, because, at least so far, I'm having a good experience..

So I talked to the person handling the scheduling and prep of the trailer today. They actually called us, because they got the pictures from the sales person, but a couple of things weren't obvios.

re the TV: While she didn't recognize what was wrong right away, as soon as I mentioned to look how close it was to the ceiling I got a "whoa, that's not right", we'll fix that.

reL the under oven drawer... They were already on that. The westcoast model has a large outdoor kitchen so I loose ALL of the under-counter storage. She agreed that doesn't fly... period. I'm not sure I'm getting the actual matching oven door, by the way, she said.. "We'll do something" in maybe just regular drawers, or a deep drawer, but she was with me. Can't take all the storage away and leave nothing.

re the bottom door on the pantry.. that is a "design choice" for them, but she is going to price a door for me. The above picture must have been taken without the slide all the way out because the door would clear the bench. I have a picture on my phone showing that it would. I offered to buy the door, but it was going to have one.

re; the missing doors in the bathroom, she agreed, that's not acceptable. We'd have to load in and load out every time as stuff would be on the floor on the first bump or turn.

So, all in all, they seem to be doing us right.

One other issue, and I think this speaks to the level of the dealership. I realize their job is to sell, but a good salesman recognizes where the limit is. When we did the paperwork at the show, I was reading while Lisa was listening. As I was going through the "extended warranty" info, I thought it was a pretty cool deal. However, after re-reading it in the comfort of my home, I realized I was reading the "NOT INCLUDED" list, thinking it was the "INCLUDED" list.

As we had to go down and re-sign the paperwork anyway yesterday (because the bank actually came back with a LOWER rate than initially quoted), I asked for the extended warranty to be removed. I explained what I did.. I also explained that for the cost of the warranty I could REPLACE any appliance (actually I did the math, could replace ALL of them) and still have money left over. She took it off the bill.. no argument.

So, so far, my "buying a new RV tip" is know what you want going in, acknowledge you understand they aren't in the "give away free stuff" business, but you want certain things a certain way. Meeting them halfway on items of concern seems to go a long way. I realize that's not always possible, but it seems to have helped here.

Unfortunately, we can't schedule the walk-thru for another three weeks. This is due to our schedule not aligning with theirs. Can't be helped.

P.S. They did try to sell me a Slide-out Topper and a vent cover. While the slide-out topper is intriguing, and i guess the vent cover is too, I can purchase and install both of those items for a fraction of the price they want to do it.
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