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Old 11-24-2018, 06:26 AM   #1
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First timer looking for TT...so confused

Hello all,
My wife and I have been long time tent campers, occasionally going with friends in TT and pop-ups.
We decided we wanted a TT. I have a truck that has a trailer capacity of about 6000 lbs. I would like the price to be no more than the low $20K. We have looked at many TT. When I look at reviews on TT brands, some are good and some are very bad.
We found a Keystone Passport ML199 that fits our weight requirement and has the layout we want. BUT after researching Keystone, there are a lot of negative reviews. Then I look further and find that another website has them in the top 10 of manufacturers. So what is the truth?
I would like this TT to last at least 10-15 years, if possible.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Steve
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:17 AM   #2
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It can be a daunting decision. Try to pick a trailer that when loaded, will still weigh a fair amount under you max trailer rating for the truck.

Take your tent camping equipment/layout/stuff, and try to fit it to a travel trailer floor plan and design that supports the style of camping you are used to.

I still like a good quality hybrid as a good camper for the price when moving up from a tent, some don't.

For better than average quality travel trailer, look at the Winnebago Micro Minnie line, maybe a 2106DS for example, to compare to the Keystone you listed. Maybe find a deal on a used one?

Example walk around from the Haylett guy (who sounds like Clark Howard, consumer advocate).
https://youtu.be/b_1C7HvzDRA

When we moved up from two tents, I still needed to haul gear, (kayaks, mountain bikes, etc.), we built a cargo conversion. Not for everybody, but perfect for us. Example:
Teardrops n Tiny Travel Trailers • View topic - 4 kids+ 6 bikes+ 4 kayaks+ 1 canoe+ camp stuff=7x16 CTC
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Old 11-24-2018, 07:24 AM   #3
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Most reviews will be negative. Sadly very few will report success or good quality.

As for most reports of top brands, that is usually a sales figure. Volume does have it's own issues. In 2004, keystone was a very good company and quality product, and what I purchased. They have changed ownership since then, and I have not kept up.

In that price range, I feel like the bigger issue is going to be the dealership. You will need repairs, training, and general support. Focus more on the service department and less on the sales.

Call the service department and ask questions about scheduling repairs, backlog, and warranty work.

If your dealership is like the ones around my house, they have 100s of units in stock, and multiple with the exact same floor plan. Once you pick out the floor plan, go into each and observe the fit and finish. Test the obvious stuff like cabinets, doors, windows. Look for defects and then see which has the fewest.

We did this with our 5th wheel and eliminated 80% of the warranty work by rejecting 2 of them. They had 5 identical units, 3 of which had very minor visible flaws. The worst one had a missing cabinet overhead, and the other had too large of a hole for the skylight and lots of excess dicor.
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Old 11-24-2018, 09:42 AM   #4
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Agree, picking a trailer is daunting. Just when I think I am ready to pick my 4th trailer I see some other trailer that might be better.

To make it simple Winnebago Micro Mini or Mini are good trailers. I have a 2013 Keystone Vantage 25 RBS that I have had zero problems with. Everything works. But agree, maybe Keystone is not the best. My trailer is not insulated very well is why I want a different one.

I like the Winnebago Mini Plus which are bigger. But thinking other trailers like Grand Design might be better. Then I see other trailers like Artic Fox or Lance...again not easy making the best pick. Just this morning I was thinking maybe an ORV Trailer if I could get from Va. to Colorado.

If you look at trailers you will see the Winnebago uses a very high quality fiberglass.
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Old 11-24-2018, 11:21 AM   #5
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Others will chime in I'm sure. But make sure you get your truck set up for trailer brakes, WDH, etc as needed. I personally made it a must have to have a dual axle, since the idea of a blowout with a single axle scares the heck outta me.

I had a Nissan frontier which was rated to tow 6,100 lbs. Initially, I was going to buy a toy hauler and tie it with my truck. After a bunch of shopping and research, I got a truck rated to tow 11k, and am pulling a trailer that loaded is around 70% of that.

How heavy are you looking for trailers? If you have tanks that are going to be filled, you will need to add weight for those + any gear you will have in the trailer. Also, what is your max tongue rating and payload capacity for your truck?

Quote:
Originally Posted by srockey View Post
Hello all,
My wife and I have been long time tent campers, occasionally going with friends in TT and pop-ups.
We decided we wanted a TT. I have a truck that has a trailer capacity of about 6000 lbs. I would like the price to be no more than the low $20K. We have looked at many TT. When I look at reviews on TT brands, some are good and some are very bad.
We found a Keystone Passport ML199 that fits our weight requirement and has the layout we want. BUT after researching Keystone, there are a lot of negative reviews. Then I look further and find that another website has them in the top 10 of manufacturers. So what is the truth?
I would like this TT to last at least 10-15 years, if possible.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you,
Steve
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Old 11-24-2018, 01:48 PM   #6
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I got information from a Winnebago Rep at a local RV show. Reading the build process they start with a BAL frame and not a Lippert frame. That is probably a slightly better frame. According to their literature, they kinda care about building a quality product but as everyone knows it depends on the workers putting the trailer together.

At the show they had a Mini Plus 27 RBSS with a flaw. The slide came in over a heating register in the floor. As the slide came in it hit the register and made a horrible noise. The Rep saw and heard this noise. A few months later I looked at a different Mini Plus 27 RBSS and the register was moved. Not sure if the slide coming in over the register was designed that way or just a few trailers were built with this error.
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Old 11-24-2018, 05:22 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srockey View Post
Hello all,

My wife and I have been long time tent campers, occasionally going with friends in TT and pop-ups.

We decided we wanted a TT. I have a truck that has a trailer capacity of about 6000 lbs. I would like the price to be no more than the low $20K. We have looked at many TT. When I look at reviews on TT brands, some are good and some are very bad.

We found a Keystone Passport ML199 that fits our weight requirement and has the layout we want. BUT after researching Keystone, there are a lot of negative reviews. Then I look further and find that another website has them in the top 10 of manufacturers. So what is the truth?

I would like this TT to last at least 10-15 years, if possible.

Any help will be greatly appreciated.



Thank you,

Steve


I have owned 2 Passports in the past and I currently own a Keystone Alpine. I’ve yet to hear of any manufacturer that doesn’t have some issues at one time or another. People are much more likely to complain about a problem then they are to tell everyone about the fun they are having. Do a very thorough pre delivery inspection and buy from a reputable dealer.
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Old 11-25-2018, 09:16 AM   #8
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Every manufacture has negative reviews. It's pretty much the standard in an industry where demand is generally outpacing production and the people building them are paid by pieces. Yes, many Manufactures have a "quality check" before they ship them but take a walk through a dealership and You will see 80% of the trailers you walk in, if you look close enough, have a little something you can say is poor quality assembly. Most things are small. Trim loose, doors that don't shut properly, etc. Many Owners fix them themselves. Some build a list and during the first year while still under warranty, take it back to the dealership to get everything fixed.

So my point is, Manufacture should be about 5th most important thing on your list of identifying the right trailer for you.
  1. Decide what type- TT
  2. Decide if you want metal or fiberglass siding
  3. Decide if you want wood or aluminum framing
  4. Decide on a floorplan

Then you can find manufactures that make trailers that meet all the items above and then identify which you prefer and what options are available that are must have for you.

I've owned a Starcraft popup, a Keystone TT and now a Forest River Toy Hauler. None was a definition of Quality but they all functioned for years without major issues along with having me pull the screwdriver and cordless drill out once in awhile.

Read up on how to do a quality PDI (PRE DELIVERY INSPECTION) so you can identify any major issues prior to giving them a check. Making sure there are no MAJOR issues and that the worst your going to have to do is correct a minor issue is the goal.
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Old 11-25-2018, 09:56 AM   #9
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Grand Design has the Imagine XLS series in the same weight/length with some nice comparable floor plans. I'm not sure of price point.
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Old 11-25-2018, 10:44 AM   #10
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The owners forums on this very site are great indicators of the type of problems you may encounter as well as an indicator of how well they take care of you during thw warranty period. It is why I chose the trailer I did. Scroll to the bottom third of the forum list and you will find nearly every manufacturer listed.
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Old 11-25-2018, 12:13 PM   #11
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Quality Travel Trailer Brands

Last winter (2018) I joined this Dutchmen Owners forum and expressed my disappointment with my new Dutchmen Kodiak Cub. My opinion of Dutchmen travel trailers has not improved since then. I still have one required project left to finish on my Cub. My plan is to keep it and continue to use it because all the modifications and repairs have brought it up to my minimum standards. Total cost of ownership has not been lower than much higher priced trailers.
Yesterday I found a thread on a different forum started by a new member who wanted advice on what to buy for his first travel trailer. What followed was a compilation of 1000’s of camper hours of experience and a list of brands from owners with firsthand experience. Needless to say Dutchmen and many other Thor companies were specifically not recommended. Their only advantage is low purchase price. Jayco is now a Thor company and the last 2? model years are also specifically not recommended. A short list of recommended brands and brief comments follow. I wish I had this information before buying.
Artic Fox
Difficult to find east of the Mississippi
$25k to $50k thermal pane windows
Hamersville Ohio (Cincinnati)
Outdoor RV
Difficult to find east of the Mississippi , $25k to $50k
Thermal pane windows, dealer in Denver.
Cooler in sun, Excellent support
Lance are $10-$25k more than the same length ORV Creekside or Timber Ridge.
2018 28'8" Timber Ridge was $34,700
Air Stream
Recent corrosion problem
Grand Design
Insulated well
Winnebago
Was Sunnybrook
Grand Design
One bad review
Elite Suites
Lance
Newell
TIFFIN
Excellent service
Nash
iRV2 is the forum I harvested the above data from. I can't find the thread from last winter now, but this is the short list from people with first hand experience. Keystone is a Dutchman brand and is not recommend.
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srockey View Post
Hello all,
My wife and I have been long time tent campers, occasionally going with friends in TT and pop-ups.
We decided we wanted a TT. I have a truck that has a trailer capacity of about 6000 lbs. I would like the price to be no more than the low $20K. We have looked at many TT. When I look at reviews on TT brands, some are good and some are very bad.
We found a Keystone Passport ML199 that fits our weight requirement and has the layout we want. BUT after researching Keystone, there are a lot of negative reviews. Then I look further and find that another website has them in the top 10 of manufacturers. So what is the truth?
I would like this TT to last at least 10-15 years, if possible.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.


Thank you,
Steve
As mentioned previously people like to complain loudly when they have an issue but remain silent when everything works properly. If thats the model you like the most then go find one and have a close look at it paying attention to its fit and finish. If that particular unit has issues then take a look at another as very few are identical in build quality. As for the appliances and mechanicals there are only a few manufactures so any common issues with those items can be found on pretty much any brand of trailer.
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Old 12-03-2018, 08:25 PM   #13
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Total Dits

Quote:
Originally Posted by 60sumtin View Post
As mentioned previously people like to complain loudly when they have an issue but remain silent when everything works properly. If thats the model you like the most then go find one and have a close look at it paying attention to its fit and finish. If that particular unit has issues then take a look at another as very few are identical in build quality. As for the appliances and mechanicals there are only a few manufactures so any common issues with those items can be found on pretty much any brand of trailer.
Yes, everyone who complains is a total dits. Short of having a "Consumer Reports" for travel trailers, this is what we have got. The conclusion I come to is, be prepared to spend a lot after you take it home. It is Las Vegas odd for some brands, and it is a good investment with other brands.

Air Stream buyers complain about flaws in the interior finish. Voltage buyers complain about wheel falling off. There is a difference. See the list of recommended brands posted above.
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Old 12-03-2018, 09:52 PM   #14
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