GFCI Problems

[twinboat]

Changing outlets that have been disconnected during trouble shooting is a waste of time and money.

Do you have an outside TV ? Mine is plugged into an outlet under a draw in the galley area. Only found it while running a wire under there.

There is also an outlet in a compartment that I only found while laying on the ground looking up in it.

Keep looking.

[seanb02]

Originally Posted by twinboat

Changing outlets that have been disconnected during trouble shooting is a waste of time and money.

Do you have an outside TV ? Mine is plugged into an outlet under a draw in the galley area. Only found it while running a wire under there.

There is also an outlet in a compartment that I only found while laying on the ground looking up in it.

Keep looking.

No outside TV. I suppose it is possible that I am missing finding another outlet somewhere, but I certainly don't know where.

[cavie]

Originally Posted by Paul R. Haller

The very first place I would look is the outdoor duplex outlet and just replace it. Most RVs use offshore made outlets and this outdoor outlet is exposed to moisture. Most Chinese made outlets are of poor quality and can easily get a small ground fault due to moisture. You can buy a household approved duplex outlets that are UL approved at the big box stores in bulk for less then a dollar each. Simply replace all outlets downstream of your GFCI with UL approved duplex outlets starting first with your outdoor outlet. My guess is you have a moisture problem with your outdoor duplex outlet and don’t use the built in slide in connectors on the back of the outlet. Use the screws to tighten your connections down on the sides of the outlet. If you have ever disassembled an offshore made duplex outlet you would see first hand their incredibly very poor quality. The very first thing I did with my new rv, as a former county electrical inspector, was to replace every duplex outlet in my rig with ul approved duplex outlet. They are inexpensive and will easily carry the current they are rated for. Not so with offshore made outlets. Check each outlet in the output chain and remove the outlet and strip and connect each conductor together with a wire nut mechanically twisted together tightly before applying the wire nut. Strip more insulation off then you need and twist the conductors together with a lineman’s pliers so you have a solid mechanical connection between conductors before applying the wire nut and cut the twisted conductors to the right length and cap tightly with a wire nut so you have a solid mechanical air tight connection and only buy quality built wire nuts that have a spring steel copper plated insert that creates an air tight connection between conductors inside the wire nut. Only then, can you be assured of good air tight connections. Good luck and keep us posted on finding your ground fault.

So, Mr. Formally County inspector, Tell me something, What kind of box did you install in the wall to make these UL/NEC approved outlets NEC code compliant? A code compliant box will NOT fit into the walls of an RV. That is why the code compliant Chinese outlets are used. They do not have any exposed connections. Did you just change out the outlets with no boxes and stuff the wire nuts back in the wall? Please tell me as an inspector you didn't do that!!! If you did And I know you had to, you just created a very dangerous fire hazard!! 45 years an a Master Electrictrician and 2 years an Electric Building Inspector and I have never heard the term "Airtight wire connection"

LET ME SAY RIGHT HERE. THE CHINESE PUNCH DOWN OUTLETS ARE JUNK BUT THEY DO MEET NEC CODE. THEY HAVE NO EXPOSED ELECTRIC CONNECTIONS.

If you did use some sort of box with your install, please tell me what NEC code # you used for box fill with 2 romexs and wire nuts and duplex devices you used to make in code compliant and a non-fire hazard.

Damnit, now the next used RV I buy I'm gonna have to remove all the outlets an see if a DIY read and followed your post.

[Paul R. Haller]

Racor makes small metal boxes with built in Romex clamps that are shallow enough to fit inside the exterior facing RV wall with enough room to install the ul rated duplex outlets with wire nuts but they are small. They also have large tabs so that once the hole is cut you can slide them in and screw them to the interior luan and they are NEC compliant. They are too small though for a GFCI outlet. The big box stores do not carry them. I generally have to find them at an electrical supply.

[steve52]

Originally Posted by cavie

So, Mr. Formally County inspector, Tell me something, What kind of box did you install in the wall to make these UL/NEC approved outlets NEC code compliant? A code compliant box will NOT fit into the walls of an RV. That is why the code compliant Chinese outlets are used. They do not have any exposed connections. Did you just change out the outlets with no boxes and stuff the wire nuts back in the wall? Please tell me as an inspector you didn't do that!!! If you did And I know you had to, you just created a very dangerous fire hazard!! 45 years an a Master Electrictrician and 2 years an Electric Building Inspector and I have never heard the term "Airtight wire connection"

LET ME SAY RIGHT HERE. THE CHINESE PUNCH DOWN OUTLETS ARE JUNK BUT THEY DO MEET NEC CODE. THEY HAVE NO EXPOSED ELECTRIC CONNECTIONS.

If you did use some sort of box with your install, please tell me what NEC code # you used for box fill with 2 romexs and wire nuts and duplex devices you used to make in code compliant and a non-fire hazard.

Damnit, now the next used RV I buy I'm gonna have to remove all the outlets an see if a DIY read and followed your post.

I thought RVs use different electrical hardware because the operating environment is not the same as a stationary structure, and the vibration and movement that RVs are subjected to can cause wire nuts and screw connections to loosen and fail.

[Paul R. Haller]

Well, yes and no. Yes, the rig moves and you would think they are different. But no, that NEC code requires no exposed connections unless in a box. In stick built houses the box inside the wall surrounding outlets protects the connection that are exposed within the box. In a trailer, motor home, 5th wheel, in an effort to reduce costs, manufacturers don’t use boxes and instead use cheap poor quality duplex outlets made in China that have concealed connections thereby sidestepping that stipulation of needing a box. But the reality is that these cheap, offshore outlets will not carry 15 amps of current safely. They will overheat, and do, causing a possible fire. They literally punch down the conductors between two sharpened pieces of plated steel which pierce the insulation jamming the conductors between them thus making the connection. This is a very poor connection at best. Now add to that, the constant vibration associated with a vehicle used on the road. I always go through my rig, put in steel boxes that will fit and install UL approved duplex outlets that do not overheat and are easily capable of carrying the current because they use screw down clamp connections. Imagine a Portable heater plugged into one of these cheap Chinese made punch down outlets and that heater pulls 12 amps. The NEC regulations have to be followed even in a vehicle. That said, no inspector would ever allow a cheap Chinese made punch down outlet outlet in your own stick built house because they do not carry the current load through the outlet.

[seanb02]

Well, the problem appears to be solved. After a call to Northwood they do not any wiring diagrams for this particular circuit. However he was able to send me information on what is in the circuit. There is a junction box located underneath of the trailer mounted to the floor inside of the frame rail near the slide area that I missed during my diagnosis.

I opened that up and reset the wire nuts and it doesn't trip anymore. My best guess is the GFI being so sensitive was detecting a minor amp draw due to slight condensation build up in the connectors from the wet rainy weather we have been experiencing around here.

It is quite a relief knowing that it isn't an issue with the wiring inside of the walls requiring a very expensive tear down to find the problem.