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Old 10-21-2021, 02:55 PM   #1
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Good 4-Season TT Brands/Models?

Hi All,

Selling my current unit (Fleetwood Pioneer 24BH), and looking to replace with a "4-season" style TT. To clarify, by 4-season what I'm thinking is "well-insulated + dual pane windows," I have no visions of it working great down to -20 or whatever, I just want it to be more comfortable in a wider range of temps. Also, it seems that the "4-season" models are often a little heavier, with better suspension systems, more wood/less particle board, bigger tanks, etc....which is all on my hit list.

Question is - with so many off-shoot brands from the major manufacturers, am I missing any that I should be looking at? Need a super slide, bunks, and approx 30' model, and my price range lands in 2011-2015 ish aged units. So far I like the spec on:

- Outdoors RV
- Creekside RV (really like the shock absorbers on some models; our TT is used off-road every time it leaves the house)
- Jayco Eagle
- Timber Ridge/Wind River
- Arctic Fox (bunk models newer than 2011 ish don't seem to exist tho, and Nash only makes smaller/shorter bunk units)
- Keystone Cougar (not a deal breaker - but the interiors are mega ugly, and the exteriors seem to wear poorly...is it just crappy stickers?)

Other considerations - must have a power awning, and will be used "dry" and off road every single time it goes out. Don't put any freeway miles on it, or many miles at all - it goes to our remote property and hangs out there most of the spring/summer, with a few trips per year in/out.

It seems every brand has a "glacier/arctic/polar" package that is thrown around, but few actually offer dual pane windows, thicker walls, etc. And the ultra-lights just don't appeal to me. Any thoughts on if I'm on the right track, or missing any good contenders? Or why any of those should be cut from the list? Good/bad experiences with any of those for my application?
Really appreciate any insight - have really enjoyed the Pioneer (it was our first TT), but want to make sure we get something nicer this time around, as we use the heck out of the thing.
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Old 10-21-2021, 10:21 PM   #2
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How many of those brands you have listed offer thermal block construction?

Fiberglass batten insulation in the roof, and walls with no barrier to stop water vapor from the inside out, will result in mold. If you are planning on using a TT, in below freezing, or even close to, this is a major concern that you should also add into your equation.
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Old 10-22-2021, 10:16 AM   #3
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The travel trailers with better 4 season preparations are the Arctic Fox and Nash trailers. Many manufacturers stick on a Polar, Arctic or some such sticker and nothing else. For a true 4 season trailer, you need better insulations, dual pane windows, enclosed basement with basement heat.

Good luck shopping,
Ken
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Old 10-22-2021, 12:23 PM   #4
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AF and Nash are well known and easy choices insulation wise, yes. Unfortunately through my looking around, the layout choices are pretty poor for 2 kids + large dog.....double bunks with a couch, dinette and a super slide doesn't really exist.

It seems a little tough to find reviews/experiences on actual usage vs. discussion that just goes around in circles. Something like a Jayco Eagle per the manu's literature sounds to have a pretty decent insulation package, but finding real-world reviews is quite tough.

Can anyone speak to the dual pane window/better insulation units having less issues with the substantial condensation you get when running the furnace in cooler temps....or is that just as much a venting issue?
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Old 10-22-2021, 02:52 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynelson View Post
AF and Nash are well known and easy choices insulation wise, yes. Unfortunately through my looking around, the layout choices are pretty poor for 2 kids + large dog.....double bunks with a couch, dinette and a super slide doesn't really exist.

It seems a little tough to find reviews/experiences on actual usage vs. discussion that just goes around in circles. Something like a Jayco Eagle per the manu's literature sounds to have a pretty decent insulation package, but finding real-world reviews is quite tough.

Can anyone speak to the dual pane window/better insulation units having less issues with the substantial condensation you get when running the furnace in cooler temps....or is that just as much a venting issue?
This will be an argument but IMO; the condensation issue can be mitigated for the most part though I wouldn't consider any TT a true 4 season, full time rig. It boils down to (no pun intended) limiting activities that create a ton of moisture (cook outside, short showers) and making sure you have adequate ventilation and run fans when you do. .......and no matter HOW cold it gets, you need to have some ventilation - just breathing causes moisture.

Of the ones you mention, I feel the ORV (they also make Creekside) is better quality than Jayco, Cougar, etc. My partner has a Cougar and it is noticeably cheaper than the ORV. I'd also consider Arctic Fox, Nash or Lance.
What I like about the ORV's are the increased clearance, better suspension with shocks, better R values and larger tanks - I'd buy another one today.

2 cents,
Dave
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:42 PM   #6
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Much appreciated - I totally gotcha on the "(not really) 4-season, 4-season trailer." I don't anticipate using any of them through winter full-time (or even part time). But we do use it a lot in the spring and fall, when days can be warm and nights can be freezing level +/-

Not concerned with the water system freezing up or anything along those lines,....but would like a nice level of comfort when chilly....or when running the AC on hot days. On my current TT, you can just always tell than the outside wants inside LOL....and it would be nice to mitigate that feeling. I REALLY like the idea of the shocks in the ORV units...surprised more aren't equipped as such
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Old 10-22-2021, 03:45 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaynelson View Post
AF and Nash are well known and easy choices insulation wise, yes. Unfortunately through my looking around, the layout choices are pretty poor for 2 kids + large dog.....double bunks with a couch, dinette and a super slide doesn't really exist.

It seems a little tough to find reviews/experiences on actual usage vs. discussion that just goes around in circles. Something like a Jayco Eagle per the manu's literature sounds to have a pretty decent insulation package, but finding real-world reviews is quite tough.

Can anyone speak to the dual pane window/better insulation units having less issues with the substantial condensation you get when running the furnace in cooler temps....or is that just as much a venting issue?
Hard to compare DP windows unless you can find the same RV that has and doesn't have DP windows.
I will say though that on my last trip we were at an RV park and it only got down to around 45* at night but the TT next to us was totally immersed in window condensation the next morning. You could see the had swirls on one window where they were trying to look outside.
Our ORV with DP windows has never had any condensation when running an elec heater or the furnace.
We ran out elec heater that night and it cycled on and off. We were in a full hook up RV park. Not sure if the other TT used the furnace or elec but it doesn't really matter because we've used both and never any condensation.
I know the TT next to us didn't have DP windows because it was a low price ultra light.
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Old 10-22-2021, 04:26 PM   #8
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Arctic Fox has a good suspension also, they just donít plaster advertising stickers all over the trailer like my ORV did.

I had a 2011 Arctic Fox with double-pane windows. The windows were Hehr brand, and seemed thicker than the double-pane windows on my 2021 ORV or my 2021 Arctic Fox. I never did have condensation on my 2011 AF windows, but did get frost around the windows of my ORV. Granted it got down to 11 F the time my ORV showed frost, and I think my 2011 AF never went below about 20 F. I have not had my new AF out in cooler weather yet.

By the way, I had a Skyline bunkhouse model TT that did not come with shocks. I was chatting with the service guy at the dealership about it, and he said it would be easy to add shocks. The manufacturer recommended the proper shocks, and it cost me just two or three hundred to buy and install. Tremendous upgrade! That was probably 2008-ish.
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Old 10-22-2021, 06:09 PM   #9
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NW AF travel trailers just have shocks added. I never saw anything about MR/Dexter wet bolts or a MR3000 equalize or 16" tires.
Probably makes little difference for 98% of buyers.
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Old 10-22-2021, 06:58 PM   #10
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Condensation on windows has more to do with the temperature difference, and water vapor levels inside the trailer.

So a trailer that has their thermostat set higher, and higher levels of water vapor, will have more condensation.

But more importantly is the condensation that is getting into an attic cavity that utilizes batten insulation. Itís unprotected, and will absorb water vapor. Especially in colder temps, when heat is applied to the interior living space.

We camp April thru October, even now we are getting below 20 degrees at night. Glad I have a full laminated foam board insulated trailer, with Azdel interior wall board. No worries of taking a hot shower in our unit.

I just donít understand why manufacturers donít use required materials to mitigate this issue. Especially in ďso calledĒ 4 season units. Itís a simple step, that doesnít even require much expense.

I believe if more buyers were aware of the potential problems, and ask the appropriate questions, then manufacturers would be forced to change.
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Old 10-22-2021, 08:16 PM   #11
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Here in Minnesota people that want a true 4 season camper buy an Ice House. I know it is considered a fish house but you would not believe the number of people that live in them year round here.

https://icecastlefh.com/product-category/products/rv
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Old 10-23-2021, 12:00 AM   #12
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Creekside , Timber Ridge, and Wind River are all Outdoor Rv models. Creekside is the lowest option models then Timber Ridge followed by Wind River. They changed up the names in 2017 I think.
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Old 10-23-2021, 08:47 AM   #13
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I want dual pane windows on my next trailer. I think it will be worth it. Less condensation, a tiny bit better insulation, and quieter inside.
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Old 10-23-2021, 09:34 AM   #14
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Don't know where you are located but I'd suggest waiting for a slow day at your local dealers and go look at as many units as you can. Try to pick a day with a large temp swing. Hopefully you can be the first one into the unit that day. See what the temp is inside each compared to other units. Some brands are very hot/cold compared to the others. If you are in a cold area, go early and see how well the unit maintained the heat overnight. If your area is hot, go in the afternoon and see how well the overnight cold was maintained. Also close the doors and see how well the unit blocks the ambient noise. It's really easy to put a 4 season label on the outside, it's harder to add insulation. Don't scratch Nash from your list. They made an outstanding unit in the vintage you are looking at.
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