HELP!: New trailers with aluminum construction and non-batt insulation?

[Zymurgest]

Living Vehicle claims to be using foam in their insulation, but they really don't break down the construction to individual sections of their rigs. Pretty spendy, but then again they are solid aluminum coaches with aluminum framing. Guess you get what you pay for either way! Safe, and hoppy travels from the Boondocking Brewer™!
https://www.livingvehicle.com/models

[jstarr3211]

Look at ATC (Aluminum Trailer Company). Totally Aluminum construction, everything, floors cabinets, roof. Azdell walls interior. No mold possible. No off gassing. Insulation foam. Available in TT and fiver. Great build quality.

[Abner Mality]

We love our inTech Sol Horizon Rover. Welded aluminum cage frame, bubble foil insulation, azdel (fiberglass composite) single sheet sides and top. They're worth a look. Ours is a single axel 19ft, but there's also a Terra which is a twin axel 26ft.
https://intech.com/rv/

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Abner Mality

We love our inTech Sol Horizon Rover. Welded aluminum cage frame, bubble foil insulation, azdel (fiberglass composite) single sheet sides and top. They're worth a look. Ours is a single axel 19ft, but there's also a Terra which is a twin axel 26ft.
https://intech.com/rv/

I know they don't market them as "4 season" trailers but hopefully they have more than just bubble foil insulation;

The R-value of 3/8-inch-thick foil-faced bubble wrap is about 1.3. By contrast, 2 inches of extruded polystyrene insulation has an R-value of 10.

Dave

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

I know they don't market them as "4 season" trailers but hopefully they have more than just bubble foil insulation;

The R-value of 3/8-inch-thick foil-faced bubble wrap is about 1.3. By contrast, 2 inches of extruded polystyrene insulation has an R-value of 10.

Dave

Since ORV walls are only 1.5" thick foam could we say 7.5 R value?

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Since ORV walls are only 1.5" thick foam could we say 7.5 R value?

Well, I just pulled that to illustrate common R values, I wasn't comparing it to an ORV. Actual R value varies depending on the type and thickness of the insulation, for eg. my 25C9.6 Bigfoot had 1.5" EPS with an R rating of 8 and my Bigfoot 30C10.11 had a 1.5" wall with polyurethane rated at R12. Since the ORV wall is 2" thick (O.D.), I imagine the actual insulation thickness is at least 1.75" and the insulation appears to be high quality - R value is probably 10 but could be as low as 8 IMO.

My point is that 7.5 is still almost 6X what bubble wrap provides - An R value of 1.3 is very, very low. In the quest for better materials, it's probably best not to forget that there are also vastly different performance values for the various trailers as well.

2 cents,
Dave

[geo-gypsy]

Originally Posted by fastpedaler

I am trying to find trailers with aluminum construction and non-batt insulation. I know there have to be some out there, but it isn't easy to find them. I would appreciate any help.

Fastpedaler -

I can assure you that New Horizons builds a full aluminum construction with only foam insulation - laminated. Walls, ceiling, floor, slide side walls, etc. But it is a custom built fifth wheel. And you can make all and any choices. And New Horizons is more expensive than the spec units you find on RV sales lots. But as a full-timer since May 2013, and a New Horizons Majestic owner since April 2018, it is definitely a quality RV and comfortable. Check out their website at www.horizonsrv.com. Look at the Majestic webpage and scroll all the way down to the bottom of that page. That is my unit in Pagosa Springs, CO, February 2019. Day 4 of a straight six day snowstorm that dropped a total of 52" of snow in the campground. Stayed warm and toasty!

Just my two cents,
Ron

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

Well, I just pulled that to illustrate common R values, I wasn't comparing it to an ORV. Actual R value varies depending on the type and thickness of the insulation, for eg. my 25C9.6 Bigfoot had 1.5" EPS with an R rating of 8 and my Bigfoot 30C10.11 had a 1.5" wall with polyurethane rated at R12. Since the ORV wall is 2" thick (O.D.), I imagine the actual insulation thickness is at least 1.75" and the insulation appears to be high quality - R value is probably 10 but could be as low as 8 IMO.

My point is that 7.5 is still almost 6X what bubble wrap provides - An R value of 1.3 is very, very low. In the quest for better materials, it's probably best not to forget that there are also vastly different performance values for the various trailers as well.

2 cents,
Dave

Actual foam thickness is exactly 1.5". All you have to do is pull up a dinette seat cushion support piece.
I have no idea what type ORV uses but here's a sample.
https://insulation.supply/product/fo...-gps-proboard/
1/4" ply is .31 so that would equal the two 1/8" luans for ext/int.
Doubt the fiberglass has much R value.
So the whole wall assembly seems to be around 7.8.
Not much IMO. Older homes had 2x4 walls with R-11. Not near as nice as R-19.
Seems pretty much normal for most TT's.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

Actual foam thickness is exactly 1.5". All you have to do is pull up a dinette seat cushion support piece.
I have no idea what type ORV uses but here's a sample.
https://insulation.supply/product/fo...-gps-proboard/
1/4" ply is .31 so that would equal the two 1/8" luans for ext/int.
Doubt the fiberglass has much R value.
So the whole wall assembly seems to be around 7.8.
Not much IMO. Older homes had 2x4 walls with R-11. Not near as nice as R-19.
Seems pretty much normal for most TT's.

We could argue about this but we're going in circles; 1.5" of foam could be R7.5 or R12 as per my Bigfoot example above. I do know that the insulation ORV uses is a better quality than some of the other stuff I've seen so I'm gonna guess its 8-10. ....not that it matters. One thing is certain; the ORV walls are about the thickest I've seen in a TT and most are going to have an R value that is maybe 5-7 so I will disagree that what we have is "pretty much normal for most TT's" Then there are the double pane windows, insulated access doors, etc.


Dave

[bneukam]

R-values are achieved using only conductive heat flow. They don’t include convection, and radiation.

Air sealing, and moisture control are both very important when using batten insulation.

[Abner Mality]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

I know they don't market them as "4 season" trailers but hopefully they have more than just bubble foil insulation;

The R-value of 3/8-inch-thick foil-faced bubble wrap is about 1.3. By contrast, 2 inches of extruded polystyrene insulation has an R-value of 10.

Dave

You bring up an excellent point Dave! Per inTech's spec sheet the insulation they're using is R-7, plus I've read that the Azdel laminate is R-2, so that should bring the overall value to R-9.

The coldest we've camped got to the high 20's overnight; yes, not Manning PP in February weather! Had the furnace set to 68 and the tank heater on. Furnace kicked on maybe 4-5 times overnight (light sleeper), plenty warm with just a sheet for me; of course DW and our 2 mini doxies help heat up the space

[bneukam]

Education on R-Values, on how it’s ratings are achieved, versus the reality of what actual performance is greatly differs.

Any RV that uses batten insulation without the use of water vapor barrier is not a 4 seasons camper. You may think you know, just because a manufacturer has said you are good, doesn’t mean you are.

Many manufacturers have zero experience on proper insulating a RV, but continue to push a narrative that theirs is the best.

[propchef]

Originally Posted by bdersham

Try River Valley Trailers in Baltimore, OH, they make aluminum trailers. I know this for a fact as my 2 businesses are next door to them Believe the phone # is 740-621-6146 direct to Randy Sidwell

Do they make TTs for humans? https://www.eclipsealuminumtrailers.com/

[propchef]

Originally Posted by geo-gypsy

Fastpedaler -

I can assure you that New Horizons builds a full aluminum construction with only foam insulation - laminated. Walls, ceiling, floor, slide side walls, etc. But it is a custom built fifth wheel. And you can make all and any choices. And New Horizons is more expensive than the spec units you find on RV sales lots. But as a full-timer since May 2013, and a New Horizons Majestic owner since April 2018, it is definitely a quality RV and comfortable. Check out their website at www.horizonsrv.com. Look at the Majestic webpage and scroll all the way down to the bottom of that page. That is my unit in Pagosa Springs, CO, February 2019. Day 4 of a straight six day snowstorm that dropped a total of 52" of snow in the campground. Stayed warm and toasty!

Just my two cents,
Ron

These look very nice but they only make 5ers. I think the OP (and me :-) ) are looking for bumper-pulls.