Let's talk brands of trailers. . Bang for the buck?

[Lancealot]

Originally Posted by AZ Pete

look at Lance, you will be impressed with the quality and features!

[guy65]

Originally Posted by Hit-n-Miss

If you were looking(were set on the size we want 16-18') of the brands listed what would you buy? What ever we get I would like quality for the money spent.

Another one...
what is your definition of quality? that nothing breaks during the first 2 years? how it is built? what's in it? what brand the appliances are?
Just for example- hot water heater- the low budget campers only have gas heated hot water heater (at least if they have a hybrid, it's an upgrade)- now- do you prefer a top of the line hot water heater only with gas, or would you say, you can live with a cheaper model, but hybrid?
Countertops- would you prefer a laminated counter top, therefore stainless steel appliances, or would you prefer the better quality full plastic countertops and can live therefore with the black ones?
is quality the standard cheapo blinds but they work, or the super duper pull down plastic ones- looking nice, but after 10 times up and down they don't stay up no more?
you will not get everything. you will have either all cheapo interior and maybe- just maybe- a better manufactured box, or you get some nicer upgrades and somewhere the money has to be saved. they don't give their stuff away.
If you upgrade, then you are at the end far away from where you was before and the steal deal is in a range of a 3000sqft mansion.
And I looked at the colemans. we looked at them at 4 different dealers- just to make sure, because they had the same floor plan, like the one, we actually bought and like the wildwood, we had as alternative and was $4000 cheaper as the Vibe and $2500 cheaper as the Wildwood. as long as you don't look deeper and under the aspect, that if they are new, they all look good, yeah- seems like a great deal. At the end it's how sensitive you are. What preferences you have and where you can make compromises.
If we would had upgraded the $4000 "cheaper" Coleman to what the Vibe has, which we ended up buying, the Coleman, as lower trim line camper would had been $2000 more expensive than the Vibe!
This just for added electric jacks, electric stabilizer, LED lights, Electric awning, residential fridge with inverter, slide topper and outside TV antenna connection- last but not least- the Vibe has mag wheels, the Coleman those ugly full metal jacket things. Also the Vibe had already the new designed axles with wider axle distance for better tow stability, the coleman was not even near that option, same as with the insulated and heated underbelly- the coleman could not come up with this option- not even for extra money. Oh- and not to forget- the Vibe had the spare wheel as mag wheel- the coleman- we would had to purchase one- including the bracket for it. The Vibe was from first view more expensive, but in the aftermath- it's a class higher, had everything in, what we wanted and also the quality is not top of the line, but for this price class upper level- at least the doors are not falling off, when you open them, the toilet flushes and don't leak, the windows even have nice curtain rods and we really like the front cover, what hides the gas bottles and battery. you see- not everything what looks as deal is one at the end.
So much to your question about quality. without knowing the preferences and comparing the campers with their extras, impossible to say.

[Superslif]

The Coleman, Aerolite and Kodiak are built on the same production line. Coleman using all the low end end materials. Were on our 2nd Aerolite product. Yes, bang for the dollar was well worth it. It's a 2013 and will have 400 nights ( of use) by the end of this season. But are looking at ORV product as our "next" RV. Yes ORV's are almost twice the price of a Coleman of the same size. Would not make sense if only used 10-15 nights a year.

My last Aerolite (2005) was used 7 seasons (380 nights) Cost to own from what I bought it for and what I sold it for was $21 per night of use. You can't go wrong with that. I bet many people are at $100 per night. My 2013 should come out maybe even a little better.

That is why I can justify spending $30-40k on a ORV Timber Ridge unit. Looked at Highland Ridge, Cougar, Grand Design (Imagine) and Winnebago...

[lcboy]

Guy65 that's why we bought a Vibe. We looked at a whole bunch of campers and it had more things than all the other ones like electric jacks and stabilizers,electric self dumping awning,stainless appliances,aluminum rims,laundry shoot, back door to bathroom,fiberglass sides with good insulation,and inclosed underbelly.Also I wanted a gas grill and outside kitchen which the other campers didn't and the v-nose is nice.It cost a little more but if you use it a lot you'll be glad with it.

[patriot07]

I agree the Vibe is a nice brand. We looked at those when we shopped around. Wasn't worth the extra $ for us, but it isn't a huge $ upgrade if you are going to use it a bunch. We're very happy with our Solaire and my parents love their Coleman. Neither have had a single quality issue so far, something we couldn't say for the Heartland they had the last few years.

[theoldwizard]

One problen the entire RV industry has is quality/durability. Whether you have a good or a bad trailer seems to depend on how busy the factory is and what day of the week it is built on.

I also believe that wood stud walls with aluminum siding are really yesterday's technology. They are low cost and can be used in a well made trailer, but year of bouncing down the road are going to take a toll on them.

That is not to say that walls made of 1" square aluminum tubing are always better. Poor/insufficient welding will result in the same kinds of problems. And we have all heard of at least 1 story about delaminted fiberglass siding. I would love to see someone make a wall out of 1.5" or even 2" aluminum tubing and additional insulation. Call it their "super insulated" version.

And why are almost all trailer built with plywood/composite floors ? One leak while in storage and your trailer is pretty much destroyed. Sure it cost more, but why not aluminum floors ?

If manufacturers really believe they have a SUPERIOR product, they should be offering a 3 year, "bumper to hitch" warranty as standard and a 5 year optional plan. 2 years is not common and does not cover any appliances.

[Normal_Dave]

Presto...

2" thick aluminum tubing walls with insulation: (Outdoors RV) Their tubing even has wood inserts at locations needing better fastener anchoring.
https://youtu.be/Yfh_DXLo6l4

All aluminum, including extruded aluminum floor: (Camplite)
https://youtu.be/0IvdfjtbfXQ

And what construction related post wouldn't be complete without a walk-through from that Haylett RV guy? (sounds just like Clark Howard consumer advocate for WSB-TV Atlanta)
https://youtu.be/n-TM9Zy9fSI

(Yes, I've been studying up on these two). The Livin Lite/Camplite video was made I think before the Thor buyout, but I can't see a reason they would change the construction.

[guy65]

Originally Posted by lcboy

Guy65 that's why we bought a Vibe. We looked at a whole bunch of campers and it had more things than all the other ones like electric jacks and stabilizers,electric self dumping awning,stainless appliances,aluminum rims,laundry shoot, back door to bathroom,fiberglass sides with good insulation,and inclosed underbelly.Also I wanted a gas grill and outside kitchen which the other campers didn't and the v-nose is nice.It cost a little more but if you use it a lot you'll be glad with it.

I can say, we are hardcore users right now- we live in it full time- sold our house, bought our "little farm" and have to wait until our little cabin is built. so we will be in there for at least another 6 months or longer. The only thing I wish I would had done is the second AC. other than that- we love the VIBE. After I compared all options, yes, I can say- it was the biggest bang for the buck (according my preferences). It has everything others have in the same price range- AND MORE. Might not be everything necessary, but it's a nice to have, but you would have to spend $5-10K more on other campers to get it. And all that for under $25000- this makes me wonder, why you don't see more of them. Probably, because of the V- Nose, they're just looking huge.

[guy65]

Originally Posted by theoldwizard

And why are almost all trailer built with plywood/composite floors ? One leak while in storage and your trailer is pretty much destroyed. Sure it cost more, but why not aluminum floors ?

1. Aluminum is expensive - even more, since some automakers buying all the available aluminum to make their bodies out of it.
2. Aluminum requires different construction, because of the attachment points. Either you need aluminum screws/rivets which would result in a weak connection due to small shear resistance, or you have to use special coated screws, which still bear the risk of chemical corrosion, where aluminum is very attracted to.
3. to install a aluminum body to a steel frame you run Into the same problems. The frame is usually used as ground for the battery (like in every vehicle) with water and just the slightest contact point to the frame, you would have electrochemical corrosion, which fouls your floor off within weeks! And don't say- the risk is small- little rocks are everywhere.
4. if you go then to say- why they don't built the frame with aluminum? yes- very possible- and in Europe actually very common. but there we are- this would require a complete different construction of the frame and body due to different static of aluminum. nothing could be, how it is right now. Actually, you would also limit the length of the campers due to the fact, that for the weight distribution of the frame, the wheels would have to be centered to the frame, which would create from a certain length too much overhang at the rear. Plus- expensive and extremely more complicated to stabilize the whole camper.
5. if you think- why do they not weld everything- well- aluminum is weak and soft. if you would not give it some room to move, it would crack, bend and a simple little bump and your camper would be all crooked.


Those are just 5 reasons. I know, there are some campers out there with this construction- but look, how much they cost- I doubt, that you get any aluminum camper at the same size for less than 50% more cost, than a conventional built. And what you would save, would not make it up for what you spend to get it. As long as engineering and research can't come up with a durable and cheaper solution, we have to be happy with what's out there.

[vanion2]

Originally Posted by guy65

1. Aluminum is expensive - even more, since some automakers buying all the available aluminum to make their bodies out of it.
2. Aluminum requires different construction, because of the attachment points. Either you need aluminum screws/rivets which would result in a weak connection due to small shear resistance, or you have to use special coated screws, which still bear the risk of chemical corrosion, where aluminum is very attracted to.
3. to install a aluminum body to a steel frame you run Into the same problems. The frame is usually used as ground for the battery (like in every vehicle) with water and just the slightest contact point to the frame, you would have electrochemical corrosion, which fouls your floor off within weeks! And don't say- the risk is small- little rocks are everywhere.
4. if you go then to say- why they don't built the frame with aluminum? yes- very possible- and in Europe actually very common. but there we are- this would require a complete different construction of the frame and body due to different static of aluminum. nothing could be, how it is right now. Actually, you would also limit the length of the campers due to the fact, that for the weight distribution of the frame, the wheels would have to be centered to the frame, which would create from a certain length too much overhang at the rear. Plus- expensive and extremely more complicated to stabilize the whole camper.
5. if you think- why do they not weld everything- well- aluminum is weak and soft. if you would not give it some room to move, it would crack, bend and a simple little bump and your camper would be all crooked.


Those are just 5 reasons. I know, there are some campers out there with this construction- but look, how much they cost- I doubt, that you get any aluminum camper at the same size for less than 50% more cost, than a conventional built. And what you would save, would not make it up for what you spend to get it. As long as engineering and research can't come up with a durable and cheaper solution, we have to be happy with what's out there.

These are all good points but Prime Time uses laminated aluminum on all walls, floors, and slide outs. All this mounted to a steel chassis. Price point for a 215Air is around $25K for a 23' 10" TT well loaded with a 4 season package. This isn't to create an argument but only to point out that they exist and are not as expensive as you think. And yes, Prime Time is a Forest River subsidiary. The only factory upgrade was the 13.5K A/C to the 15K A/C. Everything else comes standard (no electrical jacks or ladders though).

I know that doesn't compare to your Vibe size wise but for the same sized TT branded with Lance it's $13K less expensive and a lot easier to tow due to the lower hitch weight (about half of the Vibe). In fact, the all aluminum frame and lower tow rates and 4 season package were the very reason I chose this particular TT. That and the bathroom blows the Lance 1995 out of the water. I hate shower curtains.

[guy65]

Vanion2 - you prove my point. yes- you can get it- but you have to pay.
a 21ft camper for a price of a 30 footer. stripped to basic without any upgrades, which are standard- like electric jack, electric awning, electric everything which other campers in this price class have. you can't have everything. Nevertheless- if your needs and wants are satisfied and you're ok with the trim and price- it's great.
But what you forget- your camper is 50% more than a comparable conventional product. now transform this on a $30000 camper- it would be then $45000- a price range, where you get a decent luxury tow behind or a decent basic 5th wheel. The question is- how much are you willing to spend. And I doubt, anybody want to spend this much- because on the one side, they want everything on the other- they don't want to pay anything for it. like the stones already sung- you can't always get what you want... and I say- 100% quality for 50% of the price- ain't gonna happen.

[theoldwizard]

Originally Posted by Normal_Dave

2" thick aluminum tubing walls with insulation: (Outdoors RV) Their tubing even has wood inserts at locations needing better fastener anchoring.
https://youtu.be/Yfh_DXLo6l4

very impressive ! But they fail in 2 areas.

They claim "marine grade" 3/8" plywood roof decking. True marine grade plywood has no plugs in any faces (plugs clearly showing in the video), no voids in any intermediate plys and WBP (water and boil proof) glue. I would like to see the certificate from their supplier. BS1088 marine plywood should be what is used in the subfloor.

Last, plywood decking is certainly much better than OSB, but not as good as aluminum, which I do understand would cost a lot more.

Originally Posted by Normal_Dave

All aluminum, including extruded aluminum floor: (Camplite)
https://youtu.be/0IvdfjtbfXQ

Yes, I am very impressed with CampLite. I sure wish the had models with Murphy Beds ! I sure am glad they went with real wood cabinet doors !

The industry has finally realized that a curved "radial" roof shed water so that it can not puddle and cause leaks. Not if they only had a better method of joining the roof to the side wall that did not totally depend upon caulk/sealant. What they really need is a overhang/eave but then they would have to make the whole TT narrower to meet to over the road width limits.

[theoldwizard]

Originally Posted by guy65

1. Aluminum is expensive - even more, since some automakers buying all the available aluminum to make their bodies out of it.

I do understand this, but it you want an RV that is going to be solid and leak proof for 20-30 year, It will cost $$$

One bonus with aluminum (at least before Ford started making aluminum F150s) is that we were very near 100% recycled aluminum. There is a BIG cot advantage for recycled aluminum, not from the material, but from the process.

[Hit-n-Miss]

I am a man of modest means. That is why I mentioned the ones I did. I cannot afford a high end camper. I want to be able to afford to use it. We will not be camping in the snow or extreme heat. So 4 seasons is overkill. I don't have marble counters in my house so I don't need them in a camper. I would like to know which of the brands listed hold up if kept under a shelter and are used several times a year for weekends and vacation. Thanks.