Community Forums

followingsea · 07-10-2018, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRUSA14

You conclude that it is a scam why, ....

At the risk of repeating myself, because the web site made unsupported claims.

Just for the record, if you buy a car without doing research before walking into a dealership, you are much more likely to buy something that is not a good choice.

1bigmess · 07-10-2018, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by followingsea

At the risk of repeating myself, because the web site made unsupported claims.

Please, can you be less vague? How about a specific claim, and the evidence to refute it? Your expertise in lead acid battery chemistry and battery types could save someone a lot of money and disappointment.

wingnut60 · 07-10-2018, 03:02 PM

The Lifeline website makes unsupported claims? Is that what you meant to say?

followingsea · 07-11-2018, 12:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wingnut60

The Lifeline website makes unsupported claims? Is that what you meant to say?

Exactly!

Just for the record, since I am not selling anything it is not up to me to provide data.

"Please, can you be less vague? "

You should asking that of the scam artist.

Energy scams are a dime a dozen. Unless you have taken a thermodynamics class and hard college chemistry class they may be hard to spot.

Engineers love to brag about actual performance. If you tell me that your twice as expensive will last longer but you do not tell how much longer with some data, then I am skeptical. If your guarantee is Walmart's cheapest battery that should tell you something.

1bigmess · 07-11-2018, 04:05 PM

You've made claims about what you believe is a scam in this and items discussions, you claim some expertise, then you don't back up your assertions. I've got all the (lack of) evidence I need to ignore you. Anyone else?

wingnut60 · 07-12-2018, 06:24 PM

I have a ditto to 1bigmess answer...

ODH · 07-13-2018, 12:09 AM

From table 3-1 of Lifeline Tech Manual

"Battery destroyed when frozen"
Lived in northern Minn. Temps of -40F not uncommon (record low in home town -53F). Never saw a frozen battery. If not using the battery all winter take it out of TT. Marketing BS

"Electrolyte spills when tilted,inverted, or cracked."
If my TT is upside down I don't really care if battery leaks. Never had a battery leak as long as I kept it upright. If the case cracks, an AGM battery is just as worthless as as any other battery. Marketing BS

"Water addition - Frequent–increases dramatically with age due to antimony contamination of the negative plate."
I check the water level of my flooded battery every 2 months. Add water every 4 to 6 months. Have never detected any increase (dramatic or not) in need to add water with battery age. Last TT battery was 6 years old when sold. Current TV batteries are over 7 years old. Marketing BS

Not saying Lifeline AGM batteries are not good batteries, but they may not be the best battery to purchase for everyone.

1bigmess · 07-13-2018, 07:03 AM

Yes, because all of your anecdotal information and experiences with lead acid batteries must be more relevant than the knowledge of a company whose only goal is to make lead acid batteries. After all, they cannot possibly know as much about their product as one random person on an internet forum, could they?

Of course not. I apologize.

imjustdave · 07-13-2018, 10:40 AM

OK everyone relax... Take things with a grain of salt in marketing we get it. IF you like flooded batteries buy them if you like the latest technology go AGM or LiON your free to chose.

A better Question that I have is... How low can you safely drain a battery, how many amps do other draw and how can I setup a decent battery bank to boon dock with without have to charge daily on a generator.

I use a Cpap machine to sleep now... so that's an easy 50 Watt draw for 8 hrs + fridge + other stuff. I get amp volt watts but its the capasity and amp hrs that Im epic new with.

I know I should pull an amp draw on my trailer to find out how much it uses but how to properly setup a well oiled and lubed battery bank system isn't something you get from the RV dealer.

vanion2 · 07-13-2018, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imjustdave

OK everyone relax... Take things with a grain of salt in marketing we get it. IF you like flooded batteries buy them if you like the latest technology go AGM or LiON your free to chose.

A better Question that I have is... How low can you safely drain a battery, how many amps do other draw and how can I setup a decent battery bank to boon dock with without have to charge daily on a generator.

I use a Cpap machine to sleep now... so that's an easy 50 Watt draw for 8 hrs + fridge + other stuff. I get amp volt watts but its the capasity and amp hrs that Im epic new with.

I know I should pull an amp draw on my trailer to find out how much it uses but how to properly setup a well oiled and lubed battery bank system isn't something you get from the RV dealer.

To answer that question you need to get a power monitor and then run your devices for a 24 hour period of time. That will tell you your daily usage.
Next, you need to know that you can safely drain deep cell batteries about 50%. (The LifPO batteries about 80%).
All deep cell batteries are rated by AHr (amp hours). The bigger the number the longer it will last. I have 2 x 12V AGM 125 AHr batteries which means I can safely use 125AHr without over depleting my batteries.
Your fridge is going to need an inverter and even a mini fridge will be a major power hog. I don't know anything about CPAPs so I can't offer advice but 50W isn't too bad. If you run your house furnace that will be a huge hit as well.

On my 250 AHr bank I can do a 4 day boondock and never go below 80% but I have 400W solar, an inverter generator, a convection heater, and run my fridge on propane. Needless to say our power draw is very low. I chose AGM because I put my batteries in an enclosed space, no maintenance, and these were military grade solar batteries. I am not throwing my hat into the raging debate above but simply stating why I chose the AGMs.

So the short answer is get a power monitor to get an accurate answer. Determine where you are going to store your batteries. Then decide if you want more batteries to cover your measured usage or charging options like your generator or solar and using fewer batteries. I prefer the latter because batteries are heavy and take up space and I have mounted 200W in panels on the roof for a combined weight of 10 lbs (flex panels) then I have 2 rigid panels for the other 200W I can move around as needed. The generator is for microwave and A/C the few times that we need it.

ODH · 07-13-2018, 10:25 PM

"Yes, because all of your anecdotal information and experiences with lead acid batteries must be more relevant than the knowledge of a company whose only goal is to make lead acid batteries. After all, they cannot possibly know as much about their product as one random person on an internet forum, could they?

Of course not. I apologize"

A lot of useful info in that post. This random person is an electronic engineer with 40 yrs experience working with batteries of all kinds including lead acid, silver/zinc, lithium ion, thermal, etc. You might check out NSWC Crane's website were you will find it listed as the Navy's center of excellence for batteries. Does this info matter? No! My post concerned marketing BS, which is designed to convince someone to pay more for a product than they have to. If you think that Lifelines only goal is to make batteries you need to read there annual stockholders report were you will find that their goal is to make money.

1bigmess · 07-13-2018, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by imjustdave

I use a Cpap machine to sleep now... so that's an easy 50 Watt draw for 8 hrs

I bought a good 120 amp/hr AGM battery for the CPAP and use an automotive power cord for it I bought on Amazon. I recharge the CPAP battery every day with a solar panel set that puts out a nominal 200watts. I stopped using the humidifier heater (I still used distilled water but no heat), and it draws down about 10-12 amps/night, which is a fraction of the capacity of the battery I'm using. The battery has been fully recharged after about two hours of sunlight every day, and has been working well like this for almost three years. It's really easy for me to do this, and the battery will run for several nights before it really needs to be recharged if' I'm driving all day and cannot put out the portable solar panels or it can recharge in a few hours with a generator or shore power and the 15 amp automatic battery charger I also have. I can also use the house batteries for the CPAP, but choose not to almost all the time.

Chiefblueman · 07-14-2018, 08:29 AM

" If you think that Lifelines only goal is to make batteries you need to read there annual stockholders report were you will find that their goal is to make money."

Now there's some news, a company whose goal is to make money.

You're not really helping your cause with statements like that. Sounds like you have an axe to grind.

followingsea · 07-14-2018, 10:05 AM

"I use a Cpap machine to sleep now... so that's an easy 50 Watt draw for when pli8 ..."

Just measured SIL's machine because they are looking at dry camping. It used 5 watts just plugged in and 7-15 watts when in use.

I was in the navy for 10 years. I did not care what things cost.

When I buy batteries I do care what they cost and how they perform. I do look at how most people do thing. There is usually a good reason.

Over the years I have come up with some innovative ways of doing thing. I had a very good reason and still had a lot explaining to do.

Lead acid Marine/RV are the norm. If you paid more for batteries others should know that you made a poor choice based on marking BS.

My purpose is to help others make good choices.

I bought my wife a Corolla LE. She thought it was a luxury car because it had all the luxuries she wanted. I could have got a Corolla S for $6 more but a Corolla will never be a sports car even spoiler on back.

My first tow vehicles were 2wd IH TravelAll and then a Suburban. It was easy to find them in a parking lot since it was likely the only one.

Marking comes along and adds an 'S'. Now you have an SUV. None are a sports car and most have lost the 'utility' characteristic.