Lightweight TT vs Heavy?

[Cuz_51]

I'm a newbie and I'm SURE this question has been asked a lot. I don't own a TT yet, but have looked at info on the Lance brand. I have a 2016 Ford Expedition EL with the heavy duty trailer tow package. It's rated to tow up to 9,000 pounds. We are looking for a trailer to live in for several winter months in warmer climates such as Florida. Other than the description of "light" or "ultralight", what am I losing (other than weight) by going to a lighter weight trailer such as a Lance at around 7800 GVWR as opposed to an Arctic Fox at 10,000 GVWR? Obviously my rig couldn't pull the Arctic Fox, but what differentiates a Lance from a Fox? Structural integrity? Better long term durability?

[Itchytoe]

I don't have experience with those two brands in particular, but as a general rule, what you lose is some structural integrity and a lot of insulation. That extra 2,000 pounds is in things like 5,000 pound axles instead of 3,500 pound axles, more robust roof and walls allowing for more insulation, and probably a little better quality interior trimmings. Those things add up to more comfort and better long term durability on the heavier trailers. That makes them better candidates for full timing.


When going down the road, the heavier one should be more stable, but that also means less nimble. Two sides of the same coin. I typically prefer towing a heavier trailer rather than a lighter one.



I don't think the difference between those two brands is significant. I'd be willing to bet they are both extremely similar.

[csuder99]

Let's try this again....

The two brands mentioned are smaller players in the market, and generally regarded a little better. Forest River and Thor Industries make some 80+% of all the RVs in the US and with a few exceptions value quantity over quality. Both have plenty of 'ultralights' which skimp even more on rigidity and durability.

Lance is independent and Arctic Fox (not to be confused with FR Arctic Wolf !) is part of Northwood Manufacturing who together with Outdoors RV form the Pacific NW faction of manufacturers.

As far as I know Lance does not use cheap Lippert frames and Northwood Mfg/Outdoors RV frames are pretty sturdy with shock absorbers at each wheel. AF claims being a "true" 4 season coach and the other PNW brands can stand sub-freezing nights as well (comes with the territory we can have freezing night temps in July...). I believe Lance is more of a three season design. So most of the weight difference is in the frame and wall thickness/insulation.

Keep in mind that the smaller manufacturers are not perfect either (recently heard some grumblings about Lance) but from personal experience I can say that Northwood Manufacturing is a a step or two about the FR product I had before.

[bneukam]

They are both built very well, and made to last a long time. Lance just puts more emphasis on keeping a lower profile, and less weight. They use all aluminum framing, with all 6 sides insulated with rigid foam board that is laminated. They use lighter products like Azdel, lite ply maple cabinets. Lance has made many improvements over recent years like bigger frames, and 15” tires, so I wouldn’t call them ultra light.

Artic Fox will use wooden trusses, and floor joists, with thicker plywood that is not laminated. This adds weight and height as they insulate with batten insulation. Plus they will use heavier materials in the interior, and cabinets.

They are both very solid, they just use different methods to get there.

[shane_the_ee]

Money. Lance does a lot of things to keep weight down without compromising quality, even if it makes the end product a but more expensive. Attic Fox and ORV don’t really care much about making it light. For almost all of the other “lightweight” brands, there’s a lot more compromises of quality in order to make a given weight and price.

[Agesilaus]

Just one correction, Arctic Fox uses aluminum framing and siding. But otherwise I agree with most of the above. I have one. I don't personally know about Lance but that brand has a good reputation. Ultralight would be a 4000# camper, they are not that. Ultralight also means flimsy construction, I would not have one.


That weight you quote is a bit too close to your max towing weight for me. Get a good weight distributing hitch whatever you get.

[astrocamper]

Go look at the inside the driver door frame sticker in your Expedition XL and let us know your actual maximum payload number.

Who will be riding in the vehicle when towing. It's unlikely that your vehicle will be able to safely tow a 9000 pound trailer when anyone more than the driver is in the vehicle.

[Cuz_51]

Originally Posted by astrocamper

Go look at the inside the driver door frame sticker in your Expedition XL and let us know your actual maximum payload number.

Who will be riding in the vehicle when towing. It's unlikely that your vehicle will be able to safely tow a 9000 pound trailer when anyone more than the driver is in the vehicle.

I may have mis-stated that: With the heavy duty towing package I have, the Ford documentation states a towing capacity of 9000 pounds. One would have to subtract the weight of driver, passenger and any luggage carried in the vehicle.

[billyw]

Learn about your payload too. That's an important number that you haven't mentioned yet. You subtract the occupants and luggage from that number, not your towing number. That number should be in the drivers door frame. My Ram can tow over 12000 lbs but has a payload limitation of about 1400 lbs, which means occupants, luggage and trailer tongue weight should be below that. Then remember the tongue weight should be between 10 and 15 percent of total trailer weight.

[Highway 4x4]

If you want the answer to this question, just go on the OutdoorsRV websuite and look at the videos. The list is long as to what you give up in a lightweight. May, or may not be important to you. I have towed my 250RDSW through some pretty good winds with no issues. It's not light but it will tow at 70MPH when legal and safe with no issues.

[keymastr]

I replaced my Expedition with tow package rated for 9000 pounds shortly after purchasing a 7500 pound gross weight ORV. You do not have enough tow vehicle for a trailer that heavy in my opinion.

With the Expedition quick lane changes or curvy mountain highways always scared me. You could feel the trailer pushing the back end on every curve. The tail was definitely wagging the dog. Sure, you could drive slower and try to anticipate every braking or turning event and make it work but that is not a very relaxing way to travel. And if the wind blows stronger than 15 or 20 MPH it will be time to pull over and wait it out, not to mention being blown and sucked out of your lane with every passing semi or box truck.

If your hitch is optimized at a scale and not just eyeballed like the dealerships do it will help. It may be acceptable if you have towing experience or are a naturally gifted driver who enjoys focusing on what the vehicle is doing but the average driver, especially a new tower, will be more fatigued and may not think what he is feeling is a sign of trouble. A new tower may think that wiggle which more seasoned towers recognize as trailer sway is normal because they have never felt a good towing combination. I think some folks forget that aspect and think the "weight police" are just trying to get you to buy a Kenworth to tow a pop-up.

Anyway, if it were me I would suggest either looking at trailers with a gross weight of 6000 pounds or less and a length of 26' or less, or get a 3/4 ton tow vehicle. My 7500 pound trailer has a tongue weight of 1000 pounds, heavier when loaded for a longer trip, add 100 for the hitch itself, add passengers and whatever coolers, dogs etc. to that and see if you have enough cargo rating to cover it. My Expedition had 1800 pounds of cargo capacity but with 1100 plus being just the trailer it left little room for everything else. That 9000 pound tow rating is what it will pull, not what it can carry. Flat bed trailers have almost no tongue weight so if you want to tow a flat trailer with bricks you could get to 9000. Not going to happen with a travel trailer.

[Desert Flyer]

Remember that your Expedition (and similar Suburban, Yukon, Escalade, Tahoe, Sequoia, Armada, etc) are essentially a half ton truck at most plus they are saddled with the extra weight of the enclosed third row and cargo area, sapping rear axle capacity. Most of what I have read is that half ton trucks with 6,500 to 7,000-lb max TT work well. Due to the reduced rear axle capacity and payload capacity your full size SUV will tow less than that comfortably and safely. If you load up your TV with lots of passengers and cargo, then your ability to tow will be MUCH less than 6,500-lbs. For travel trailers, that 9,000-lb marketing number is a complete fiction.

[Cumminsfan]

The EX also has independent rear suspension as opposed to leaf springs. Not sure how that would come into play but leafs to me are superior for towing heavy.
I know Ram offers air bags for the 3500 but thats a different animal.
SUV's seem wau over priced to me. Must be a trend thing since most auto MFG quit making sedans in favor of SUV's
Demand=$$$$$ IMO.

[bneukam]

Lance is a true 4 season, with enclosed and heated tanks, and valves. That’s if you get the 4 seasons package.
Cheap materials, and shoddy workmanship make cheap trailers, not lighter materials.
I could easily debate a Lance is more of a 4 seasons than AF. Higher R value in the walls. Plus they are constructed with Azdel, and rigid closed cell foam board that stops moisture from entering the cavity. AF does not use any vapor retarder to protect its batten insulation from absorbing it. Their attics, floors, and front cap are all insulated with it. Because we all know that is the biggest issue when camping in cold temps.
Like I always say if your looking for good info on a Lance you won’t find it here. Search their forum.