Looking for bunk house options

[bunntp]

Hey all, first post on the forums here but I've read a bunch of threads while researching TT's. I think I know what I'm looking for, just not sure if I've seen all the available options out there and wanted to see if folks here had suggestions for me.

What I'm looking for is a bumper pull TT with the following attributes:
-Tandem axle (GVWR max of around 7500). Tow vehicle is a Tundra Crewmax for now, possibly a Suburban or Tahoe type SUV in the future.
-Bunkhouse floor plan that sleeps at least 6 (preferably with larger sized bunks like 50"x74")
-Trailer floor length of approx 21-22 feet. I want it as short as possible for parking as well as boon docking maneuverability.
-Slideout for dining/sleeping area
-Large capacity freshwater tank (no less than 50 gallons)
-Some off-road capability. Something that can handle forest roads.
-hard sided, no canvas pop outs or hybrids.
-Prefer a used model, couple years old. Trying to avoid purchasing new.

I've been looking around at lots of manufacturers and have found that this particular combo seems hard to come by. Seems like the "modernized" bunkhouse floorpans with a queen in the front, dinette/bed slide out, and bunks in back is relatively new to the market. I am aware of the following options:

-Outdoors RV Creekside 21DBS. This looks like a great trailer and pretty much checks all my boxes. Problem is they're nearly impossible to find used and the new ones are a lot more than we want to spend. It's also a tad longer and heavier than some of the other options. This would be pushing my tow limits on the tundra when it's loaded up.

-Winnebago Minnie Winnie 2100BH. Decent looking trailer that is less expensive than the ORV. It's lacking in the freshwater tank and bunk size departments, though.

-KZ Escape E231BH. Also a decent looking trailer and construction doesnt look quite as rugged as the ORV or Winnie, but probably sufficient for our purposes. Big problem here is the totally anemic 20 gallon fresh water tank. Why the hell would you put that small of a tank on a trailer meant to sleep 6? Seems like there is plenty of axle capacity to carry more water. Am I missing something?

-Jayco Jay Feather 24BH. Nice looking trailer with nice amenities. Problem here is length (it's a hair over 30 feet) and it's only got a 40 gallon fresh tank. Length is a bigger problem than water capacity but that thing is just too long.

-Keystone Passport SL 221BH. Just found this one today and looks interesting. 43 gallon fresh tank is the only thing I see that doesnt meet my listed criteria but could probably live with that. Also doesnt look like you'd be able to access the back portion of the trailer with the slide out in the closed position because of the little kitchen peninsula. It's nice to be able to get back there when making quick stops on the road with the kids to grab food from the fridge or go to the bathroom.

-Keystone Hideout 21BHWE. Also just found this one today. Checks all the boxes except for a slide out and not sure if there are used ones floating around.

There are probably more that I have seen but I can't remember them at the moment. Thanks for any and all input!

[Desert Flyer]

Outdoors RV is probably the gold standard among the forum members here for ruggedness and going off the beaten path. Of course, the price you pay is price and weight. For most 1/2 ton trucks and Expedition (based on 1/2 tons), don’t expect to tow more than about 6,500 lbs total/max due to payload, axle, and receiver hitch weight limits. Especially if you are going to also have a vehicle full of 6 people. Also bear in mind that towing/hauling water further reduces available payload since water is heavy, especially a 50 gallon tank. Forest River has a number of brands with trailers that might fit your bill including Flagstaff/Rockwood, Aurora, Cherokee, Surveyor, Wildwood, and a number more. Although it creates nice interior space, a dinette slide adds about 500-700 lbs more weight that you might find is better spent elsewhere. Finally, understand that online brochure “dry” weights, or Unloaded Vehicle Weight, of TT are optimistic. They can be hundreds of pounds heavier. They do not include options or option packages (many of which are mandatory!), nor any dealer-added options.

[MapleKing]

Check out Grand Design. We have a Transcend Xplor 261BH but they have other floor plans that have a queen bed in front and bunks in the rear. They have everything that you're looking and some bonus features. The only problem is length. I know that they have many models under 30' but not near 20'.

[Sky1926]

Tough parameters there with length, tank size, some off-road, and sleeping 6....hard to find without mods I believe.

I think you are down to ORV 21dbs based on those above.

Maybe black series trailer. I’m not smart on those though.

Could look at...rockwood mini lite 2509 (flagstaff). Has “sport tire package” that gives 2 inch life and bigger tires... same with the shorter Geopro 20bh...probably not enough sleeping or tank size though.

Grand design won’t have the off-road without some suspension mods...but the imagine would be a good option for sleeping and tank size.

[kayakterp]

So the Jayco is too long? Isn’t 30’ an acceptable length at most campgrounds?
You could probably add an extra water tank on most models. Jayco also makes some different BAJA (or is it BAHA?) models that are more for off road and my fit your list?
Good luck with your search

[bunntp]

Desert Flyer was spot on about the weight. I have been re educating myself on actual towing capacities for our truck and there's no way I'm towing that ORV with a Tundra. The payload capacity on my crewmax is listed as 1385 pounds, but I need to get to a scale and verify that against a GVWR of 7200 with a realistic load of fuel, water, people, and gear in there before figuring max tongue weights. But I think a tongue weight in the neighborhood of 500-600 pounds is what I'm looking for. Also, good points and info that all other posters have provided.

I think we're kind of keen on something like a Coachmen Apex Nano 208BHS now. https://coachmenrv.com/travel-traile...no/208BHS/4011

It's got larger bunks, tandem axle, GVWR of 6000 with a hitch weight in the 500-600 pound range, larger water tank @ 50 gallons, slide out, and a listed bumper to hitch length of 25'. I could live with that.

"off road" capability on the nano may be sort of lacking compared to more dedicated off road rigs, but I may have overstated that requirement. We took a Sonic Lite 169VUD on forest roads last year and it was fine. I have a tundra with a 3" lift and 35's. I don't need serious "overloading" capability. Just enough clearance to not scrape every single water bar or pothole on forest service roads.

The Grand Design Imagine XLS 21BHE looks intriguing, as well. Those look a little pricier than the Apex but checks all the boxes, with an even lower tongue weight (probably due to the lack of the slide out).

Thanks for the great thoughts and suggestions, guys! Keep em coming!

[ardvark16]

I have a 21BHE that I got last year. The Coachman is kinda not great. If you look at Grand Design you will see that they are a well made and well thought out camper. I’m actually selling my GD now to move up to a bigger Jayco. Honestly, in the size range you are looking the 21BHE is the nicest offering. It’s 25 foot long, has huge tanks, and it doesn’t have a slide but the Murphy bed converts to a couch and it has been an amazing trailer. I will miss ours for the simplicity it offers and the amenities for its size.

[bunntp]

Ok, so new parameters....

-Max GVWR of 6000, shooting for tongue weight of 450-600 pounds
-Max length of around 25 feet from rear bumper to hitch
-Tandem axle
-Minimum 40 gallon fresh water tank
-bunkhouse floorpan with large bunks (50x70) and convertible dinette
-Either a slide out dinette or a Murphy setup for the front bed (really like that Murphy idea, it allows for space on either side of the bed for my wife and I to get in/out without crawling over each other)

That Rockwood mini lite 2509 looks neat but I think it'll end up a bit too heavy for my liking.

Actually it's funny you mention the GeoPro/E-Pro BH options. I looked hard at them and I think they're great looking trailers minus the fact that they're single axle. Seems like it's asking a lot of a single axle, but maybe not. Put on a second axle, up the water tank capacity, and throw in some larger bunks and I think those would be winners. I like the package options and the looks, just gives me pause to be hauling around with only two tires back there to keep us on the road.

I looked into pretty much every product line under Forest River. Why do they have like 20 brands selling the same model of trailer under a different name? Seems like a nightmare to manage all those business units but what do I know?Anyway, Most of them were just a bit over GVWR and tongue weights for my liking.

Still looking at the apex nano 208bhs, keystone passport sl 219bh, and grand design 21bhe.

What is it about brands like Grand Design and Outdoors RV that sets them apart? Are they just smaller and more quality focused as opposed to the larger outfits like Forest River? I don't want a chincy trailer, but I also want to be sure the extra money is worth it.

Aardvark, I may need to PM you about that GD you're going to be selling....

[shane_the_ee]

There’s also the Lance 2185. Or, if you’re willing to give up the slide out there’s the ORV 18DB/18CK. Those are both discontinued models but do show up on the used market every now and again.

[Desert Flyer]

I think you are on the right path. One caveat...tongue weight. “Dry” tongue weight is kinda meaningless. You do want to keep that as low as possible because you will be adding propane, batteries, and loading up the front storage pass-thru. It adds up fast. Just remember that you need 12%-15% of your total TT weight on that front tongue for towing stability. With 6 people’s stuff and a 4,000 lb “dry” starting weight, I think you will be up close to 5,500 lbs and will be approaching your 6,000 lb GVWR. 12%-15% of 5,500-6,000 lbs is 700 to 900 lbs. That is your target for when you are “loading up”. That tongue weight will then load your hitch. And figure 100 lbs for a good WD hitch (some fancy WD hitches can weigh 200 lbs!). So now you are 800-1,000 lbs onto the back of your tow vehicle (TV). To that, add the weight of your passengers, your driver weight that is over 150-lbs, any cargo in the “way back”, and Spot and Fido. All of that has to be less than the Payload Capacity of your TV. Plus, you cannot exceed the rear axle GAWR, nor the GCWR of your TV + TT. If you are thinking Expedition, better stop at XLT trim which has about 1,800 lb payload capacity depending on options. Higher trim lines like Platinum with lots of options can see payload capacity drop to only 1,500 lbs. Not enough for this trailer and 6 people. Lots to consider to be safe.

[bunntp]

Yea this whole towing capacity vs payload capacity thing has me re evaluating what I thought was reasonable for our truck.

My Tundra has a payload capacity of 1385. Kind of pathetic. Assuming a trailer GVWR of 6000 pounds and loading the tongue with about 12% of the trailer's GVWR that uses about 720 pounds of payload off the bat. Bam! That only leaves 665 pounds for passengers and cargo. Luckily, my wife and I are the only full sized humans in the truck. The kids total are about 150 pounds. We don't have a dog, but we do have car seats, a tool box with essential items, and other misc items. I think it's doable but I'll have to keep the extras to a minimum and load the truck and trailer carefully.

Whats a good method to determine actual hitch weight of a loaded trailer?

Also, if a good WD hitch weighs 100-200 pounds are they worth the payload penalty? Seems like the advantage of distribution off the rear axle would be offset by the weight of the hitch. It may provide other benefits I'm missing. My truck also has airlift 5000 bags, if that makes a difference.

It's amazing that there's so many people towing around trailers that are probably waaaay above their TV's rated capacities. I can now see why this is such a hotly debated topic. Everyone wants to think their 1/2 ton monster is better suited for the job than it really is....

[ardvark16]

Originally Posted by bunntp

Yea this whole towing capacity vs payload capacity thing has me re evaluating what I thought was reasonable for our truck.

My Tundra has a payload capacity of 1385. Kind of pathetic. Assuming a trailer GVWR of 6000 pounds and loading the tongue with about 12% of the trailer's GVWR that uses about 720 pounds of payload off the bat. Bam! That only leaves 665 pounds for passengers and cargo. Luckily, my wife and I are the only full sized humans in the truck. The kids total are about 150 pounds. We don't have a dog, but we do have car seats, a tool box with essential items, and other misc items. I think it's doable but I'll have to keep the extras to a minimum and load the truck and trailer carefully.

Whats a good method to determine actual hitch weight of a loaded trailer?

Also, if a good WD hitch weighs 100-200 pounds are they worth the payload penalty? Seems like the advantage of distribution off the rear axle would be offset by the weight of the hitch. It may provide other benefits I'm missing. My truck also has airlift 5000 bags, if that makes a difference.


You need a wd hitch. They distribute weight evenly and I bet are required on your truck for towing the weight of a camper. Yup they are heavy and there are some that weigh a little less but an anti sway/wd is going to be heavy. I use an equalizer 10k (100lbs) Your airlift bags might keep the truck from sagging but they don’t help w payload.

It's amazing that there's so many people towing around trailers that are probably waaaay above their TV's rated capacities. I can now see why this is such a hotly debated topic. Everyone wants to think their 1/2 ton monster is better suited for the job than it really is....

Someone is starting to figure out the rv world. Good for you for doing some homework. Sadly, yes many people don’t do any research and are overloaded. The industry is also beyond misleading and many salespeople do not care about your ability to tow safely. I have a 21BHE and moved to a 3/4 ton for comfort. 25 foot of camper behind you can really get pushy if you are marginal on weight. Your braking is another story which is the main reason I dumped the 1/2 ton. They don’t have the braking of a 3/4 or 1 ton. None of them do.

As far as what makes some brands better. Grand Design stands behind their stuff. They are responsive and make a good trailer for the money. Forest River isn’t bad but I agree that their model redundancy is questionable from a management standpoint. Outdoors RV is from the Northwest. I’ve only seen one on the East Coast. It was nice. Not better than a Winnebago from a few years back. I didn’t like the interior but it was a solid rv. There are a lot of choices out there. You need to crawl in them. I switched to a Jayco Eagle but I still love Grand Design. Although this years models I noticed some cheaper appointments that are almost shameful. Garbage window shades and still no power stabilizers on the Imagines.

[bunntp]

Yea I've had a 3/4 diesel and the difference is noticeable. My Sierra was a 4 door long box with the LBZ duramax and a mild tune. It pulled like a team of elephants and was a blast to hear that turbo spool up.... but that didnt matter much the day the crankshaft broke at the first bearing journal....

I've towed some smaller trailers with the Tundra and think they do pretty well as long as you're not asking too much of them. Trailer brakes are a must have. A good WD hitch is something I've never had before but will be looking into them more for sure. Loading technique for the truck and trailer is something I've never paid attention to but definitely will now. I've also got 10 ply E rated tires on the Tundra now which should be a positive when towing.

I think I still like that Apex Nano. It really checks a lot of boxes for our family and there's actually a rental place here in Denver that has them in their fleet. I think we'll give one a try for a few days and see how we like it. I'm also going to hit the scale over at the gravel pit this week and see what my actual curb weight is to determine an accurate payload capacity.

The Grand Design does look like a really nice trailer, too. I'll keep my eye out for one and who knows?.....Our kids are 5, 4, and 2 (twins!) so the little tub in the Nano seems better for us than the shower of the 21BHE. Seriously...If you're looking to sell it shoot me a PM and we might be interested. The used market is pretty bleak right now so if we could jump on something before it hits a lot it might make sense.

[Desert Flyer]

Kudos to you Bunntp...you are well on your way to learning how to safely tow and be a Happy Camper. Keep asking your questions...there are LOTS of knowledgeable and helpful folks here that will help you out. Myself, I have learned a lot here over a number of years too. Some disparate viewpoints too, but with all the infinite combinations of TV and TT, speeds, conditions, fulltimer vs weekender, mountains vs flatlands, full hookups or none, fair weather vs 4 seasons, I get the feeling that there are almost no wrong answers. Except maybe cars pulling TTs...haven’t seen that since the 70’s/80’s. Have fun!