Community Forums

move on · 01-14-2021, 06:38 AM

One thing to remember about truck manufacturers' towing limits is that they are determined at test speeds of 100 kph or 62 mph. If you are planning on long trips you will be on interstate highways with traffic going 75 mph. If you want to keep up you will want something bigger than a vehicle that maxes out at 62 mph. I agree with the other commenters that you will be much happier and safer in 2500 rather than a 1500.

Persistent · 01-14-2021, 08:50 AM

"Please help me understand if I have to much trailer for my truck, I am not against moving up to a 2500 series. But looking at the above I don’t see the need."

I don't see the need either. Some posts above appear to be confused. You may choose to trust the design engineers or someone's "gut feel".

Actual weight verses specified Maximum weight is what matters. Choosing to use dry weight or Gross Vehicle weight is an estimate. Gross Vehicle weight is a choice that is often best. However, it is what you use when you do not have actual weights. Robert911 has posted actual weights. Use actual weights when possible.

Tow vehicle MGVWR. 7600
Actual 3000 + 3860 = 6860 -- good to go!

Max Gross steering axle. 3950
Actual 3000 -- good to go!

Max Gross rear axle. 3950
Actual 3860 -- good to go
This one is close to overweight. Be careful not to add significant weight to the truck bed. Possibly adjust the weight distribution hitch to move more weight forward.

Max Gross combined weight. 15000
3000 + 3860 + 6780 = 13640 -- good to go

Max trailer weight with WD hitch 11700
If this value came from the driver's door sticker, it would conform to the Federally mandated method of specifying. It is indeed the maximum. However, anything other than a 150 pound driver added to the tow vehicle after market reduces this value. Passengers, luggage, bed liners, absolutely everything added counts.

Max hitch weight with WD hitch 1170
You did not post actual hitch weight.

"The above is the information obtained by researching the VIN"
The published value from VIN search is probably OK. The driver's door sticker should say the same thing. If the two sources disagree, then there is a problem.

"Please help me understand ..."
I think you understand just fine. You may consider moving up for other reasons than being overloaded. That would be your choice.

My rig is also heavily loaded. I have a hitch that is sometimes overloaded, but everything else is within specifications when loaded for travel. I choose to drive slower and leave more space between me and the vehicle ahead. I expect to have more frequent unscheduled maintenance as miles accumulate. (I recently replaced 3 of 4 wheel bearings.)

The choice is yours.

Dave Pelletier · 01-14-2021, 09:33 AM

He did post actual hitch weight;

Scale info with trailer attached
Steering axle 3000
Rear axle 3860
Trailer axle 6780
Truck only weight 6140

3000 + 3860 = 6860 - 6140 = 720 lbs

Now if we look at this from his numbers and ignore the trailer's GVWR, he's running with nothing, the manufacturer has the dry weight at 7155lbs and dry tongue weight at 875 lbs (no water, no options, no cargo)

The problem is that his trailer weighs 7500 lbs (720 + 6780) and that 720 lbs is only 9% tongue weight which is too light. He should have between 12 - 15% ( 900 - 1125 lbs) which will give him a real payload of 7600-6140-(900 to 1125) = 560 to 335 lbs for fuel, passengers etc., IF he never loads up the trailer, carries fresh water or anything else of consequence ......not much. He may be able to stay within the ratings as long as he stays 1500 lbs under the trailers max GVWR, but that doesn't address the windage, sway and leverage concerns I mentioned earlier; we are talking about a trailer that is 33' 9" long!

Definitely his choice but I sure wouldn't do it.

Cumminsfan · 01-14-2021, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Persistent

"Please help me understand if I have to much trailer for my truck, I am not against moving up to a 2500 series. But looking at the above I don’t see the need."

I don't see the need either. Some posts above appear to be confused. You may choose to trust the design engineers or someone's "gut feel".

Actual weight verses specified Maximum weight is what matters. Choosing to use dry weight or Gross Vehicle weight is an estimate. Gross Vehicle weight is a choice that is often best. However, it is what you use when you do not have actual weights. Robert911 has posted actual weights. Use actual weights when possible.

Tow vehicle MGVWR. 7600
Actual 3000 + 3860 = 6860 -- good to go!

Max Gross steering axle. 3950
Actual 3000 -- good to go!

Max Gross rear axle. 3950
Actual 3860 -- good to go
This one is close to overweight. Be careful not to add significant weight to the truck bed. Possibly adjust the weight distribution hitch to move more weight forward.

Max Gross combined weight. 15000
3000 + 3860 + 6780 = 13640 -- good to go

Max trailer weight with WD hitch 11700
If this value came from the driver's door sticker, it would conform to the Federally mandated method of specifying. It is indeed the maximum. However, anything other than a 150 pound driver added to the tow vehicle after market reduces this value. Passengers, luggage, bed liners, absolutely everything added counts.

Max hitch weight with WD hitch 1170
You did not post actual hitch weight.

"The above is the information obtained by researching the VIN"
The published value from VIN search is probably OK. The driver's door sticker should say the same thing. If the two sources disagree, then there is a problem.

"Please help me understand ..."
I think you understand just fine. You may consider moving up for other reasons than being overloaded. That would be your choice.

My rig is also heavily loaded. I have a hitch that is sometimes overloaded, but everything else is within specifications when loaded for travel. I choose to drive slower and leave more space between me and the vehicle ahead. I expect to have more frequent unscheduled maintenance as miles accumulate. (I recently replaced 3 of 4 wheel bearings.)

The choice is yours.

So he's 90 lbs under the RAWR. with an empty trailer that eventually loaded up? As soon as he starts loading the front of the trailer he'll be over the RAWR and further if he loads anything in the bed of the truck he'll be over the rear.

The TT's brochure dry TW is 875. Add 100 for hitch. 975. Add 60 lbd for propane and 90 lbs for batteries and the TT has a real world dry TW of 1175.
Max TW is 1170,
Add another 150-200 lbs under the bed and in the front storage and the OP's easily way over the max TW and over the RAWR,
Looking at the floor plan there's not a lot of places in the rear to add more weight to offset the heavy tongue weight. the fridge and pantry are over the axles so they're not hurting or helping.

If 3860 is sitting on the rear axle from just the TT then the TW is well over the rating.
Dry RAW is around 2100-2300 lbs. The difference is 1500+ lbs.

Persistent · 01-14-2021, 11:19 AM

Thank's, I missed the previously posted tongue weight.

Tongue weight needs to be at least 10% for stable towing. 15% is more stable.

Trailer weight is actual 6780. Tongue weight must be at least 678 pounds for stability. Actual tongue weight is 720 and so it is adequate. It is less than the maximum 1100 pound max specification and so is good to go.

10% is calculated on the weight being towed that pivots on the ball. The tongue weight and WDH weight is on the tow vehicle and does not count as towed weight.

Also, the 10% rule is an estimation for planning. He said he towed it and is happy with the performance. Lack of sway indicates it is good to go.

If at a later time he finds sway he should add tongue weight regardless if it meets the 10% rule or not. If the sway is minor, adding anti sway to the WDH may be enough.

The Anderson WDH has built in anti sway.

Robert911 · 01-14-2021, 05:38 PM

Thanks everyone for the input, as I expected the truck should be good enough but is at the upper limits. I understand that can will make decisions on what I learned. The only thing I noticed was a lot of people talked about loading the trailer and exceeding the weights. I was aware of the need to have everything in the truck and trailer that would be carried during camping season. The only weight that was not on the trailer was fresh water. I am wondering what water will do to the tongue weight, fresh water tank is directly behind the trailer rear axle. Thanks again Bob

Dave Pelletier · 01-14-2021, 10:28 PM

Then filling up the water tank will reduce your tongue weight which is already dangerously low. The tongue weight is supposed to be 12-15% (not 10) of the entire trailer's loaded weight, NOT just the portion on the trailer axles.

shane_the_ee · 01-16-2021, 04:26 AM

I still haven’t seen the OP give us the measured tongue weight. This is done by putting the tongue on a scale or by measuring all three axles without the weight distribution bars/chains connected. Without that we don’t know the tongue weight nor do we know how much weight is actually being transferred from the drive axle back to the steering axle....

Robert911 · 01-16-2021, 09:32 AM

Yes, I need to get them actual tongue weight. I mistakenly figured the tongue weight as the difference between the truck only actual rear axle and the weight of the rear axle with the trailer connected. But the WDH was engaged. But it is winter here in Nebraska, we have received snow. So I will wait for a better day. Thanks again for all the input.
Bob

Dave Pelletier · 01-16-2021, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shane_the_ee

I still haven’t seen the OP give us the measured tongue weight. This is done by putting the tongue on a scale or by measuring all three axles without the weight distribution bars/chains connected. Without that we don’t know the tongue weight nor do we know how much weight is actually being transferred from the drive axle back to the steering axle....

Correct, I missunderstood and thought he had the bars removed/disengaged

Cumminsfan · 01-16-2021, 12:25 PM

OP says the dry RAW is 2600. Hitched it goes to 3860. Thats 1260 lbs added to the rear. How much is TW and how much is camp gear? 1260 is clearly over the hitch's rating.

shane_the_ee · 01-16-2021, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cumminsfan

OP says the dry RAW is 2600. Hitched it goes to 3860. Thats 1260 lbs added to the rear. How much is TW and how much is camp gear? 1260 is clearly over the hitch's rating.

But steer axle is down 500lbs from the unhitched weigh...

Cumminsfan · 01-17-2021, 08:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shane_the_ee

But steer axle is down 500lbs from the unhitched weigh...

And whats the steer axle with TT on the ball with no WDH?
Removing 500 lb from the front axle seems like a lot to me.
The whole setup is wonky IMO.

Skilletface · 01-17-2021, 10:08 AM

I agree with Cumminsfan, the way the weights move around is weird. For a half ton you probably have the best, however, it’s still a half ton and your at the edge of the vehicle’s capabilities all the time. Apply Mother Nature and road configurations and your out of margin for safety.
If your going to go with your current set up you’ll need to reinforce the A frame as Persistent outlined and reconfigure the hitch set to it’s maximum to obtain the desired leveling.
IMO, 500lbs. taken off the steer axel is to much.