Not for the PNW?

[rmtravis]

We just completed a 7 week trip form Michigan up to Alaska and back in our Keystone Passport 189RB we bought new this March. Overall 23' long, 4,500 dry and 6,400# max loaded. It's a great couples layout with a murphy bed, dinette slide instead of the theater seating - we wanted to sit across from each other for board games and gaze into each other's eyes, and the murphy bed already had a couch. Don't have to crawl over each other with the Murphy bed. Full dry bath in back and L-shaped kitchen with a 3 burner stove / oven and microwave. It will fit in any National Park campground and the Alaska ferry too. Standard 200w solar and outside kitchen. We've had no problems pulling it with our F150 w/3.5 turbo but I upgraded a few things in anticipation for this trip.
Replace the tires with Goodyears, installed shocks on the double axles especially for traveling to Alaska,
MaxAir bath fan, 1000w inverter, rear ladder, SoftStart for the A/C, back up lights, rear view camera and slide topper.
Sway/equalizer bars are essential plus I added SumoSprings on the truck axle.
Took out the outdoor dorm fridge to give me room for a Blackstone grill.

Only thing I want to do next is upgrade battery to Lithium Ion and maybe add more solar. We're very happy with it so far and accept it's limitations. But it's a perfect size for 3 people and easily towable with the proper sized 1/2 ton PU. (our 2018 F150 has a 10,600 tow capacity so I'm less than 60% capacity)
Keystone makes a Western version that has slightly larger tires but essentially the same.

[LargeMarge]

Oregon here.
Southern Willamette Valley (aka 'the swamp').
You mention rain:
* folks around these parts have a semi-permanent coating of rust.
True fact...
.
a)
After a half-century of make-do camping in lesser rigs, we converted a 1996 Ford CF8000 commercial truck to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard.
We boondock exclusively.
.
Based on our experience with factory RecreateVehicles -- disclaimer: 'for our purposes' -- most would tend to crumble to dust the first mile up a rough logger track to a remote mountain lake... or across deserts to isolated Baja beaches.
The culprits:
* staples into particle-board
* yuge windows
* Holes! In! The! Roof!.
.
b)
An examination of any used factory RecreateVehicle will reveal:
* loose joints ceiling-to-walls, allowing rain intrusion
* molding interiors of walls, caused by rain intrusion
* spongy springy floors, caused by rain intrusion.
We wish we could offer a reasonable alternative, but...
.
...today is late-September, the start of seven months of rain.
.
c)
THe,
We think you might be asking more than a factory RecreateVehicle can offer.
If such a rig was available, every overlander would flock to the factory doors, ready to plunk-down their hard-earned.
If such a rig was available, the line would be around the block.
.
As you might imagine, the cost would reflect that value... and few recreational users, heading out for a few weekends annually, would be comfortable with that level of investment.
.
d)
How about an alternative?
Farm and ranch folk cannot afford wasting energy fixing bent axles and warped frames.
Additionally, they are responsible for the safety of their animals.
.
Would you consider a horse trailer with living quarters (aka 'LQ')?
Or converting an empty trailer to your needs?
.
Real-World:
Back-country packers move their mules to trail-heads, often many miles up gravel pot-holes.
The equipment must be repeatably trustable.
.
e)
For back-country excursions, shorter offers easier winding through narrow tracks.
You mention your preferred length... but we are rarely inside except to sleep.
Our interior is three paces across by seven paces long, perfect for three RedHeelers and two adults (plus a frequent yummy third!).
"But but but how can you live in such a tiny space!"
We do not live in our ExpeditionVehicle.
We live out of it.

[ALLOY]

Originally Posted by LargeMarge

Oregon here.
Southern Willamette Valley (aka 'the swamp').
You mention rain:
* folks around these parts have a semi-permanent coating of rust.
True fact...
.
a)
After a half-century of make-do camping in lesser rigs, we converted a 1996 Ford CF8000 commercial truck to our concept of an ExpeditionVehicle.
Nearly two decades full-time live-aboard.
We boondock exclusively.
.
Based on our experience with factory RecreateVehicles -- disclaimer: 'for our purposes' -- most would tend to crumble to dust the first mile up a rough logger track to a remote mountain lake... or across deserts to isolated Baja beaches.
The culprits:
* staples into particle-board
* yuge windows
* Holes! In! The! Roof!.
.
b)
An examination of any used factory RecreateVehicle will reveal:
* loose joints ceiling-to-walls, allowing rain intrusion
* molding interiors of walls, caused by rain intrusion
* spongy springy floors, caused by rain intrusion.
We wish we could offer a reasonable alternative, but...
.
...today is late-September, the start of seven months of rain.
.
c)
THe,
We think you might be asking more than a factory RecreateVehicle can offer.
If such a rig was available, every overlander would flock to the factory doors, ready to plunk-down their hard-earned.
If such a rig was available, the line would be around the block.
.
As you might imagine, the cost would reflect that value... and few recreational users, heading out for a few weekends annually, would be comfortable with that level of investment.
.
d)
How about an alternative?
Farm and ranch folk cannot afford wasting energy fixing bent axles and warped frames.
Additionally, they are responsible for the safety of their animals.
.
Would you consider a horse trailer with living quarters (aka 'LQ')?
Or converting an empty trailer to your needs?
.
Real-World:
Back-country packers move their mules to trail-heads, often many miles up gravel pot-holes.
The equipment must be repeatably trustable.
.
e)
For back-country excursions, shorter offers easier winding through narrow tracks.
You mention your preferred length... but we are rarely inside except to sleep.
Our interior is three paces across by seven paces long, perfect for three RedHeelers and two adults (plus a frequent yummy third!).
"But but but how can you live in such a tiny space!"
We do not live in our ExpeditionVehicle.
We live out of it.

100%



For the people that say a RV is 4 Season or made for off road I wonder if they boondock at temps below 15F and have running water or if they've been down 500 miles of washboard/potholed FSR.


There are trailers coming in from Australia that are made to go off road but they are not made for temps below 32F.


https://kimberleykampersusa.com/

[Cumminsfan]

Originally Posted by ALLOY

100%



For the people that say a RV is 4 Season or made for off road I wonder if they boondock at temps below 15F and have running water or if they've been down 500 miles of washboard/potholed FSR.


There are trailers coming in from Australia that are made to go off road but they are not made for temps below 32F.


https://kimberleykampersusa.com/

Then you need one of these Aussie style TT's
https://www.blackseries.net/blog/bla...is-winter.html

[Dave Pelletier]

Both the Kimberley and Blackseries are cool units........but they are also double to triple the price (or more) of a more conventional TT.

While I don't consider my trailer to be a true 4 season, full time living unit, I have no problem camping well below freezing or have any problems with forestry roads/washboard, etc.



Dave

[ALLOY]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

Both the Kimberley and Blackseries are cool units........but they are also double to triple the price (or more) of a more conventional TT.

While I don't consider my trailer to be a true 4 season, full time living unit, I have no problem camping well below freezing or have any problems with forestry roads/washboard, etc.


Dave

What's coldest and longest you've boon docked with your Outdoors with running water and no generator?


My buddy has an Outdoors. After 3 years of FSR there's been a bunch of interior (bed framing,cabinets,shower stall) issues. Now the walls are de-laminating.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by ALLOY

What's coldest and longest you've boon docked with your Outdoors with running water and no generator?


My buddy has an Outdoors. After 3 years of FSR there's been a bunch of interior (bed framing,cabinets,shower stall) issues. Now the walls are de-laminating.

I've had my current ORV for one season (2022 25RDS), I had my previous 21RBS for three years. With no generator in freezing conditions, I'd be limited to my battery capacity to 3-4 days. No issues with forest service roads - boondocking is mainly what we do. Not very many delamination issues with ORV's, sorry to hear about your friends unit.

My previous RV, a Bigfoot 30C10.11 was used up at the ski hill for extended periods (1 - 2 weeks at a time) over the 20 years I owned it to no ill-effect though I know how to properly ventilate, etc. etc. Temps would typically be in the -5 to -20 deg. C.

Cheers,
Dave

[laj]

Dave, do you think the new BF’s are built as well as the older units by the new owners?

[Parafango]

The OP posted 2 X since joining the forum/thread, and the last one was over a week ago..
Maybe he's reading and not commenting?

I could extol the virtues and issues of the Arctic Fox rigs I've owned, but,

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by laj

Dave, do you think the new BF’s are built as well as the older units by the new owners?

I think so but I don't have direct experience; the two BF's I had were both pre-shut down. The company is much smaller now but the new management and employees are all former employees and the moulds, etc. are all the same. They've significantly consolidated their line-up with only a few models now but they are tried and true designs.

Dave

[ALLOY]

Originally Posted by laj

Dave, do you think the new BF’s are built as well as the older units by the new owners?

I spoke with someone that bought one this year that said they made some modification and the owner/manager was great to work with.

[ALLOY]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

I've had my current ORV for one season (2022 25RDS), I had my previous 21RBS for three years. With no generator in freezing conditions, I'd be limited to my battery capacity to 3-4 days. No issues with forest service roads - boondocking is mainly what we do. Not very many delamination issues with ORV's, sorry to hear about your friends unit.

My previous RV, a Bigfoot 30C10.11 was used up at the ski hill for extended periods (1 - 2 weeks at a time) over the 20 years I owned it to no ill-effect though I know how to properly ventilate, etc. etc. Temps would typically be in the -5 to -20 deg. C.

Cheers,
Dave

What temp did the 21RBS go down to?

Bigfoot are great in the cold. They'll go down below 0F.

No many de-lamination issues?.....how many people will publicly report their supper off road trails is more of a super pavement trailer?

Difference might be the length of the trailer. My buddies is 30' O.A. The water isn't center over the axles so off road it's like swinging a 650lb sludge hammer down on the trailer.

[laj]

Originally Posted by ALLOY

I spoke with someone that bought one this year that said they made some modification and the owner/manager was great to work with.

Yes, ron, and keith were both great.
I was just wondering, if like other company’s, sometimes older is better.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by ALLOY

What temp did the 21RBS go down to?

Bigfoot are great in the cold. They'll go down below 0F.

No many de-lamination issues?.....how many people will publicly report their supper off road trails is more of a super pavement trailer?

Difference might be the length of the trailer. My buddies is 30' O.A. The water isn't center over the axles so off road it's like swinging a 650lb sludge hammer down on the trailer.

Around -10C . People aren't typically shy when complaining IME.....my 25RDS is 31'2" OAL. I'll let you know when it starts to fall apart, but I wouldn't hold your breath.

Cheers.