Now my dang heat is out!!!!

[Mtn. Lion]

Originally Posted by thecityman

MTN. LION I totally agree and live in fear that the problem will likely reappear. In fact, I told the repair man that it would probably happen just about the time he got back home! But if it was air in the line, maybe it wont, and for sure I'll bleed off the lines a lot longer if it happens again. I have an electric heater very similar to the one in your link. But they don't heat NEARLY as fast as my gas furnance. WHen working, my gas furnace can raise the temp of my little camper as much as 20 degrees in about 20 minutes or less. Its crazy how good it works WHEN it works. Also, I wanted my gas furnace for times when I may not have electricty. I live out in the country and we have power outages quite often. And of course when I travel with my camper I would like the option to camp in places that don't have electricity. I own a wooded farm way up on a mountain a few hours from my house and I can't wait to go there. My friend and I often camp there in deer season so it will really be fun having a warm camper!

I've thought about some kind of kerosene space heater as a backup heat source, but I fear I'd kill myself with carbon dioxide!

Podvin, you could be right. After all, the stove and water heater are both on opposite sides of my camper from where the furnace is, so the line has to branch off at some point. Still, I'd have thought if gas was flowing to one it would probably flow to the other? But yea...I'll use your suggestion as an excuse to explain the unknown problem! ha

If the furnace fails again and bleeding the propane line doesn't fix it, consider doing a power reset. Remove the electricity so the unit doesn't get power. Then wait for 30 seconds or so, re-connect and try to fire it.

I looked at kerosene heaters while shopping for a heater and found what is on the market new to be less quality than the old school heaters. They stink since they do not burn as efficient. I think they are all garbage from China, I wasn't going to risk it.

[thecityman]

Originally Posted by Nudge

Merry Christmas to you and your awesome mouse eaten’ pooch!
Best Wishes

Nudge, thanks for that awesome e-mail. I wondered if anyone caught that bit about my dog snapping up that mouse that barely stuck his head out of the vent one night!!! haha. I must say, I thought it was amazing and very cool!!! haha. My dog is an unbelievable mouser- he must think he is a cat. I can always tell when a mouse has been in a cabinet or anywhere in my house or my RV. He will start sniffing like crazy and getting excited and so on. SOmetimes he will go on point (ie freeze with his tail up- he is a bird dog after all). But then if the mouse moves, like this one did, he will grab it faster than the eye can see, just he did that one. I had barely seen it myself and my dog was 5 feet away and asleep (or so I thought) and before I knew what happened he he had grabbed it. However, he doesn't eat them or even tear them up (though he almost always kills them) I think that is from me training him to have a "soft mouth" when retreiving quail - not harming them. He he just grabs the mice, mouths it enough to kill it, then brings it to me with a great sense of pride and looking for praise. ha. Greatest dog ever!!! (Of course we all think that don't we). Anyway, thanks for that whole post to me about it being a learning lesson AND for noticing my dogs heroics. ha.

Mtn Lion - Tuffr2 actually suggested exactly the same thing (unplugging my RV for a minute and replugging it. I did try that with no luck, but now that 2 people have suggested it I will keep it in mind. That method often fixes computers so its worth trying on RV's.

Winniman- I agree that if I do it like I should (unhook and refill one tank before the second one is empty) then I shouldn't ever run out of propane. But knowing my procrastinating ways, I can see me using up one tank, turning selector to the other tank, planning to get the empty one filled, but not doing it until I'm totally out. But I've saved the 25# tanks from all my past gas grills so I plan to keep them on standby as well. They are still new enough to be filled by the places that fill tanks) so between those and my two 30# tanks AND considering how shockingly little gas I seem to be using, I am no longer worried about gas usage or running out.

[sgpd1sam]

I’m late to the party and it’s kind of apples and oranges but...
I was having problems lighting and getting weak flames from my 20 lb tanks i use for grilling on the patio. I found out the newer tanks will sense a leak if you turn them on fully immediately; it’s a safety feature. I now turn them on a 1/4 turn and wait a few seconds to get the propane going then turn them on. No more problems. Maybe the newer tanks in the RVs are the same.
Just a guess.


https://www.propane101.com/opdcylindervalves.htm

[winniman]

I was wondering if you had the selector with the red or green indicator on top. A lot of people have them, but don't really understand how they work. If you do in fact have one with the indicator, there would be no need to unhook it to see if the tank was empty. Most newer rvs have the indicator, but not all. If you have one with the indicator, you just open both tanks. Assuming both tanks are full, the indicator will be green, and it will draw from which ever tank the dial is pointed at. When that tank empties, the valve will automatically switch to the other tank, but the indicator will change to red. In order to remove the empty tank, just turn the dial toward the full tank. The indicator will turn green again, and you can remove the empty tank for refilling. This prevents you running out of propane, and possibly spoiling the food in your fridge for example, or having the heat turn off. Not allowing it to completely run out will save you some headaches. These can usually be overcome by lighting the stove burners, but it usually takes a few attempts for the fridge, water heater, and furnace to light after being run out of propane. Cheers.

[keymastr]

Unplugging only works if you disconnect the batteries at the same time.

[Old-Biscuit]

Just to clear up a bit of confusion/mis-understanding of propane system


OPD...Overfill Prevention Device
Designed to STOP Liquid Propane from going IN (80% liquid level)
***has nothing to do with VAPOR coming back OUT
MHs with ASME Tanks have had them since 1984.....separate FILL vs Vapor Service Valve
Trailers with Cylinders had to have after 1998 production dates. OPD/Service Valve/'Bleeder Valve'/Relief Valve all incorporated into the ONE cylinder valve
OPD still only affects Liquid Propane going IN....Not Vapor coming OUT


Excess Flow Device.....
Spring loaded Ball Check that will LIMIT propane flow when tripped.....LEAK/Broken line etc.
Can be tripped if Service Valve (MH or Trailer) is opened to quickly which does not allow for equaliziation on both sides of ball check. Reset by closing service valve/wait 30 seconds/then SLOWLY open service valve
Excess FLow device is in fittings at LP Regs on MH Tanks and inside the ACME Nut for Trailer Cylinders


LP Regulators.......
When the propane demand is secured ( no appliances in service) the Reg will go into 'Lock-up'
When placing an appliance into service FLOW must be established/demand placed on REG before Reg will come out of 'lock-up' and begin regulating system pressure and flow
With system pressure only 0.4 psi (11"WC) fully establishing Flow/Pressure can take several attempts especially for those appliances furthest away from supply
Lighting off Stove top burners on high provide the Demand and help establish flow so regulator can be placed back in control
***unless a line/fitting/connection has been opened NO Air in system....just slow response to demand (0.4 psi----you can whistle harder then that)




Trailers with Auto Changeover Regulators....
Indicator dial/lever......point it to one of the Cylinders
Slowly open that cylinder Service Valve---cylinder is now in service and is Primary

Indicator Green.
Slowly open opposite cylinder service valve....cylinder is now Secondary

When Primary cylinder goes empty (roughly 10 psi) the Auto Changeover swaps to Secondary and Indicator goes RED
Turn dial/lever to Secondary Cylinder.indcation goes Green
Cylinder is now Primary

Close Service valve on empty cylinder....remove and get refilled
After refilling...connect pigtail hose via ACME Nut
SLOWLY open Service Valve...cylinder is now Secondary and ready for serivce when other cylinder goes empty

Repeat forever.........


Fixed Liquid Level Gauge (Bleeder Valve)
Separate Valve on MH Tanks........incorporated into OPD on Cylinders
Open pipe at the 80% Liquid Level ---crack open bleeder valve during refill---vapor comes out until 80% liquid level is reached then Liquid Spews out. FULL/Stop Filling---close bleeder valve
****Should be PRIMARY means of filling NOT OPD
OPD is secondary means of FULL and NOT to be relied on cause it is just a float




Hopes that helps clear up some misperceptions about Propane System

[bddadles]

I don't know if my regulator is different than others but when my first tank goes empty it switches to the other tank and the regulator shows 1/2 red and 1/2 green. When I turn the selector to the new tank it then turns green. If mine is completely red both tanks are empty and that means that it is probably very cold outside and I really need the propane that I have neglected to get when the first tank went dry.

[Nudge]

Thanks allot Ol’ Biscuit.

[tuffr2]

Semi related topic - Tractor Supply is a good place to buy propane. I usually go around lunch time as there are usually places to eat around the Tractor Supply.
Note: not everyone at the Tractor Supply is trained to fill propane tanks but they can usually find someone pretty fast.

I will park close to the propane fill station. Go into the store and say I need propane. By the time they have someone to help me I am back outside and waiting with my empty tank.

P.S. good job explaining RV propane systems by Old-Biscuit[emoji106]

[winniman]

The reason I pointed that out, is I know several people with TTs that don't know how the dual valve works. It seems obvious once you know, but then again, so do lots of things. Cheers.

[thecityman]

It is my sincere hope (and belief) that this entire thread will live on and help other people for years. I sincerely believe there is a wealth of information here from all the different people trying to help and offering insight and possible solutions for gas tanks, furnace, etc. I know I've learned soooooo much from you folks and the posts you have made, and I really do think countless others will benefit from the answers and information contained herein. So once again, let me say thank-you to each and every one of you for taking the time to help me. I'm still amazed that I've gleaned 1000 times more assistance from people here who have helped me and had no motice to do so than I got from the dealership who undoubtedly made a nice little profit off of me and yet have been pretty much useless. I'll be reviewing them on google and Better Business Bureau and some of the big RV sites that have review sections.

Old Biscuit, everyone has helped me so much so I don't want to minimize anyone's efforts or kindness by focusing on just one, but your most recent post about how propane systems work is so incredible that it ought to have its own sticky thread. I've said it before and I'll say it again- it amazes me how you can provide such detailed, in depth, technical information that a life long RV user can appreciate, yet you somehow manage to provide that in depth, detailed, technical information in a way that someone like me (a brand new RV guy who is the least Do-it-yourself, handy guy on the planet) is able to understand and learn from it. You ought to write an "RVing for Dummies" book! haha

Winniman - I'm sorry I forgot to answer your question, but no, my tanks do NOT have that red (or green) gauge or whatever it is on top as shown in the photo you posted in that link. My setup looks exactly like the one shown on your link (same black tank selector switch, etc) EXCEPT for that gauge that apparently tells how much gas is left in the tanks. SO unfortunately, the only way I can really tell is by lifting the tanks. However, I do NOT think I have to unhook the tanks from the hose in order to lift them and see how heavy they are (as I did this time and which may have introduced air into the lines). I think if I just unscrew the gadget that holds the tanks down and in place that I'll be able to lift them next time- we will see next time.

I'd like to end this reply with some positivity since I'm usually complaining or asking for help!
So....last night my cable TV and my internet (which is via cable TV) both stopped working. Of course my first reaction was to curse like a sailor and ask myself what else could go wrong on this camper!!!! But within a few minutes I calmed down and thought about it and knew that this is one problem that has nothing to do with my camper. My cable and internet just goes out for a few hours once a month or so. It did this when I was in my house also so this is NOT a camper issue.

Anyway, lets get on to the positivity I promised! ha. So, I'm sitting here in my little camper with no tv and no internet, and I must say it gets pretty lonely like that. So suddenly I remember the service lady who showed me how things work in my camper had showed me a cable tv outlet that had an on/off switch with a light, and she said that when turned on it activates the cool looking tv "antenna" that sits on the very top of my RV. Now, what you have to understand is that I live in the middle of NOWHERE. Seriously, I'm an hour or so from the closest city that could even be called a medium sized city and which might have television broadcast antennas. Because of that, I have never even attempted- not even in the 8 years I lived in the house- trying to get any tv channels via antenna. I was sure I wouldn't pick up any , and if I did it might be PBS and shopping channels and religious channels- that is about all I could get when I last tried antennas at a previous house- and that house was closer to a good sized town. So I had zero hope, but sitting there in the silent RV I decided that even a shopping channel would be better than silence. So I broke out my little RV handbook, tried to remember what the woman at the dealership had told me, started fooling with my TV remote, and watched a few you tube videos (my phone has working internet thank Goodness) on how to set up everything for antenna TV.

Well, I won't bore you with all the details and steps, but long story short I turned on the antenna via the cable connection on/off switch, got all the wires and connections where they needed to be, and got my TV into scan mode. I watched with great anticipation as it started scanning for channels. I desperately was hoping it would find 3 or 4 or maybe even 5 channels.......

Guess how many channels my RV with its cool antenna found? FORTY THREE!!!!!!!!!!! 43 channels !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!

That was one of the greatest, most exciting things I've found about my RV since I bought it!!!! I can't tell you how happy that makes me. And it isn't just the high numbers- there are lots of AWESOME channels!!!! Of course there are the shopping channels and the religious channels, but honestly there are probably 15-20 REALLY good channels. There are even several channels I don't get with my cable TV subscription. ANd there is even a purely MOVIE channel! And so far its been playing GREAT movies. In short, this just thrills me to death. It gives me options I didn't know I had. For example, whenever my cable goes out, I no longer have to sit in silence or make do with the radio. Nor do I have to make do with 1-3 measly channels as I expected. Better yet, if I travel with my RV in the general area I suspect I'll be able to get at least some, if not most, of these channels. That is HUGE. I'm a pretty big TV watcher, and I'd already looking to getting one of those satellite kits for an RV, but between the kits and the cost of using them, HOLY COW are they expensive!!! But I thought I would just have to do that because -sad as you may think it is- I just really want TV at night. And I had assumed that I couldn't get anything worth watching from an antenna. So finding out how wrong I was and knowing that I now have LOTS of FREE TV channels (If I'm in this area, and the main place I want to go with my RV actually is up on a mountain and not too far away so I bet I can get most of the same channels there.

ANYWAY, this post has become another one of my infamously long, rambling stories of little interest to most people, but I'm soooo excited to discover something so positive about my little home that I had to tell someone! There is also a (very small) chance that telling my story may help someone else. There could be another dummy like me who has never tried his/her antenna setup because he/she felt certain they couldn't pick up many channels and none worth watching. If anyone like that ever sees this, I implore you to hook up your system, scan for channels, and get ready for the shock and joy you may just get to experience!!!! Today, I'm back to LOVING RV LIFE!!!! THanks for putting up with my novel length posts! ha.

[Nudge]

Yay!!!

[walt_embree]

My Atwood furnace does the same thing. On mine, what happens is: Thermostat calls for heat; blower runs the requisite ~30 seconds; flame ignites by electronic ignition; flame runs anywhere from 5 to 30 seconds, then sounds as if it actually blows itself out; blower purges ~30 seconds; flame reignites for 5 to 30 seconds then blows out again... and so it goes until often the burner box warms up and the flame will eventually run continuously. This problem seems to be worse higher in altitude and colder the temps. (All other gas components work perfectly... old gas, new gas, etc. And yes, been serviced by a shop...!)

Using a gas hot water heater as an analogy (and chainsaws and motorcycle engines as reference/experience), the strong impression I get it the burner is running too lean. It ‘jets’ and roars and constantly seems right on the edge of blowing the flame off the burner ring. To support the lean-burn theory, the exhaust pipe is absolutely clean, without a hint—none—of soot or other signs of combustion. The problem with this theory is that, at higher elevation, the mixture should actually be getting richer.... ugh!

So, my chief suspect is the orifice (main jet) either has a tiny piece of grit in it or, in fact, may have had a smaller one installed by accident at the factory. But because of the on-again-off-again burn, feeling a little warmth out the registers is absolutely right on. I suggest you go out and listen to see if your furnace is actually cycling like this. Also, fire it up on a warmer day, if possible, as see if it behaves differently.

As a side note, all voltages are good, sail switch is functioning normally, and sensors/thermocoupler checked out fine.

[willbush]

Originally Posted by thecityman

Wouldn't you know it.....coldest night of the year. My little 110s cant keep up so I turn on my gas heat and $@&*$ wouldn't you know it, it won't work!!!! I'm so mad.

Hope you guys can help?

OK, so my stove and hot water heater both work fine and my tanks are completely full of gas.

When I turn the gas heat themostat up it does kick on the fan, and I can hear the actual unit trying to fire up. About every 30 seconds I hear a clicking sound but never get that big jet engine sounding WOSH. The blower keeps blowing but its room temp air. I don't even know how to get to my furnace.

thoughts?

UPDATE: OK, now I'm more confused than ever. I just felt of it again and I'm sure that the air coming out is actually warmer than room temp, but certainly not warm like it usually is. THis is crazier than ever. I could understand if maybe the pilot light just wasn't lit so it would produce zero heat. But how can it produce just a little heat (very little). Seems like it would be all or nothing. THe air is full force air for sure. And I still hear it trying to light. So how can it be producing a little (very little) heat? Also, only the vent in the main room has slightly warm air. That is where (I assume) the furnace is since that is where I hear clicking.

Realize this doesn't fix your problem, but this i why I run my heat on gas & electric every 2 months, as well as Frig elect/Gas, HW elect/Gas, A/Cs, etc so I'm not surprised if it doesn't work;hope you figure it out soon..good luck