Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > TRAVEL TRAILER, 5th WHEEL & TRUCK CAMPER FORUMS > Travel Trailer Discussion
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 02-01-2023, 08:01 AM   #1
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 12
Pipes freezing with enclosed heated underbelly

Iíve got a 2020 Kz connect 261rb, middle kitchen, rear bathroom with a sink, toilet, and shower.

Weíve been using the water pump and fresh tank since itís freezing out, and a couple times today weíve not been able to get water out of the rear sink or toilet (cold water only, hot will flow) The front sink works just fine with cold and hot water. Itís all in the enclosed/heated underbelly. Why would we get temporary loss of water at these two fixtures? Eventually it comes back. I donít think it could be freezing underneath, furnace has been running pretty consistent. I donít think itís loss of pump power (ability) because the pump doesnít even kick on during these times so itís like theres no water pressure to the back of the camper and it doesnít feel the need to re pressurize the system?

Kind of hard to explain, but hopefully that makes some sense

Edit - towards the end of the night the sink and toilet have cold water but the shower doesnít - open the valve and nothing, no water comes out and the pump doesnít kick on.

Everything has running water off the pump other than the cold water on the shower. Cold and hot water runs everywhere else, just not the shower. Before this the cold water was intermittently not running between shower, toilet, rear sink.


Any ideas? Itís only been in the 20s and the furnace has been running, so idk how half the trailer could freeze? I feel like im missing something and that 20 degrees with a weather package and heated underbelly should not be freezing.
brendanf is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 02-01-2023, 08:24 AM   #2
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Fulda, MN
Posts: 1,025
Blog Entries: 1
It sounds like you are getting partial freeze up of the lines intermittently. It may say it won't freeze in the brochures etc. but it's hard telling where the lines were located during manufacture. One or two may have a sag in them that gets close to the that allows them to get too close to the outside, bottom insulation etc. It's unusual that the cold freezes forst as usually the hot will freeze before the cold . An old moblie home I had the hot froze before the clod and both lines were side by side. The heating process does something to the water that causes the hot to freeze first.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Adventurer 32v, P32 Workhorse Chassis 7.4l Vortech, J71 Ultra RV upgraded 67,000 miles
David 70 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 08:41 AM   #3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 280
I suspect your tanks,pump, and most of the lines are in the front of your RV and that area is heated but the lines going to the back bath are not heated.
__________________
Doug & Melba
2014 GMC dmax, crew, dually
2015 DRV Tradition
00 Buckshot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 08:43 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 262
If the water lines are not run in close proximity to the heater vents, they are susceptible to freezing, even with an enclosed bottom.
Do like the rest of us who use our RVs all year. Drop the bottom covering, investigate lines (you already know which ones freeze), and insulate them further.
Even though your RV may claim to have a heated underneath, there is so much going on in there that heat is not evenly distributed. It will be apparent when you drop the bottom.
Reprobate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 08:43 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
Thor Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 305
I had this problem the first year with my current coach. Crawled underneath and found a 6x6 access hole left open from factory... I could see the pipes! Insulated cover over that and haven't had a problem since.
Concord is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 08:58 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Beaver Dam, Wisconsin
Posts: 4,042
Good advice posted above!

Be especially alert for leaks. Fittings and valves are especially sensitive to freezing.
__________________
Paul Bristol
Kodiak Cub 176RD
Nissan Pathfinder 2015
Persistent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 12:53 PM   #7
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reprobate View Post
If the water lines are not run in close proximity to the heater vents, they are susceptible to freezing, even with an enclosed bottom.
Do like the rest of us who use our RVs all year. Drop the bottom covering, investigate lines (you already know which ones freeze), and insulate them further.
Even though your RV may claim to have a heated underneath, there is so much going on in there that heat is not evenly distributed. It will be apparent when you drop the bottom.


Iíve seen good and bad things about this - is it typically a pretty quick/painless task to drop the bottom? I havenít gone underneath it and inspected that much. I did notice this morning the rear insulation has sagged a little bit, which may allow for a draft to make its way through that area? Iím wondering if maybe next winter I donít just skirt the entire thing instead. Iíve only had it out for 3 weeks and Iím new to it all, just staying in it during the week for work.
brendanf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-01-2023, 01:09 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 262
Skirting will help, but might not solve the freezing problem unless you have a heat source underneath.
Removing the bottom covering is not bad if it is coroplast (corrugated plastic) held on with self tapping screws. The first time I removed mine I cut it into thirds to make it more manageable. Taped the seams when re-installing.
Some coverings are more of a fabric. Some coroplast is installed with a steel pin nailer which are more difficult to remove.
I have removed a section of my coroplast many times over the years to address one problem or another.
Learning to live in your RV during freezing temps is definitely a learning experience, but after you get to know your particular RV, it will be second nature
Reprobate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2023, 06:48 AM   #9
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 12
I would throw an electric heater underneath with the skirting for sure, seems a little silly to go through all that now so Iíll just use my furnace more than electric when it dips too far down below freezing.

Iíll save the removal down below until spring if at all possible, it is some sort of thin sheet metal/plastic like material. It has self tappers in the perimeter and 3 rows down the middle, so Iíd like do the same and cut it into 3rds just in between intermediate supports. Surprised they donít do this from the factory, a long thin piece of metal like that seems like a nightmare to handle.
brendanf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2023, 07:17 AM   #10
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Near Anderson, Indiana
Posts: 403
I don't know how the KZ is configured, but the sales feature of my Montana stated "zero" degrees. And yes I tested it, and water does stay flowing at zero degrees ....... BUT, and this is the big "BUT!".... The furnace has to run and it has to run constantly. At those temperatures the furnace never shuts off. Running electric heat inside the coach area will cause the furnace to begin cycling on and off again, but the inside of the coach will still stay comfortable.

BUT... (and there is that big "BUT" again) ... when the furnace is off, no heat is going under the floor where all those pipes are. And when temps are zero degrees, it takes on a a few minutes for the cold to penetrate that 1/4 inch thick plastic chloroplast underbelly and cause pipes to frees .... very, very fast.

I had a Keystone Outback that claimed "Artic Barrier". And now my Montana claims "zero degrees." ... In both trailers, in order for the underbelly to keep from freezing, meant the furnace had to stay running .... and about 50% of the propane usage went to heat the underbelly..... Yes ... 50% of the heat went under the floor in 2 trailers.

So, if you are supplementing the heat inside the coach living area with electric heat ... there-in is probably the root cause of the freezing happening inconsistently. The basement area (under the floor) of the trailer has to have heat blowing under there, pretty much ... all the time in order to keep things from freezing up. And yes .... that takes an incredible amount of propane.

Start thawing things out by running your furnace non stop and get heat that heat under there.

Now, chances are the KZ does not use actual heat ducts under the floor blowing into that cavity of cold space. Chances are, all you have are water lines laying near the furnace heat ducts. If that is the case, then your camper was never intended to be used below freezing use, as much as it might have been advertised. You need to somehow pump more warm air under the floor to those troubled spots. About the only way to make that happen is to place a skirt around the trailer and get some heat under there until you thaw out. Meanwhile, blast your furnace. You may try pulling up one of the floor vent covers and bending up the duct, creating an opening so some air will actually blow under the floor. I did this with my first travel trailer and it worked pretty good.
__________________
2019 Montana High Country 375FL Fifth Wheel
2014 Chevy Silverado 3500 6.6L HD Dually, Long Bed, Crew Cab
DutchmenSpor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2023, 07:36 AM   #11
Community Moderator


 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Full timing
Posts: 4,448
Quote:
Originally Posted by brendanf View Post
Iíve got a 2020 Kz connect 261rb, middle kitchen, rear bathroom with a sink, toilet, and shower.

Weíve been using the water pump and fresh tank since itís freezing out, and a couple times today weíve not been able to get water out of the rear sink or toilet (cold water only, hot will flow) The front sink works just fine with cold and hot water. Itís all in the enclosed/heated underbelly. Why would we get temporary loss of water at these two fixtures? Eventually it comes back. I donít think it could be freezing underneath, furnace has been running pretty consistent. I donít think itís loss of pump power (ability) because the pump doesnít even kick on during these times so itís like theres no water pressure to the back of the camper and it doesnít feel the need to re pressurize the system?

Kind of hard to explain, but hopefully that makes some sense

Edit - towards the end of the night the sink and toilet have cold water but the shower doesnít - open the valve and nothing, no water comes out and the pump doesnít kick on.

Everything has running water off the pump other than the cold water on the shower. Cold and hot water runs everywhere else, just not the shower. Before this the cold water was intermittently not running between shower, toilet, rear sink.


Any ideas? Itís only been in the 20s and the furnace has been running, so idk how half the trailer could freeze? I feel like im missing something and that 20 degrees with a weather package and heated underbelly should not be freezing.
If you have low point drains on the rig, if these are left exposed, they can freeze. Once these freeze the ice will travel up the lines into the lines inside the RV, creating a blockage of some water to some areas while other areas keep working.
We experienced this in November 2019 in Chatanooga, Tn., when the temps got down to the low teens.
__________________
2018 Road Warrior 427/2016 golf cart (gas) sold
2013 Can Am Spyder RT Limited
2017 Ram 3500 w/Aisin w/4:10
2 Dachshunds DJ (RIP 9-12-19) & Joey (RIP 5-14-21)
hamm2018 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2023, 07:50 AM   #12
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2023
Posts: 262
Quote:
Originally Posted by hamm2018 View Post
If you have low point drains on the rig, if these are left exposed, they can freeze. Once these freeze the ice will travel up the lines into the lines inside the RV, creating a blockage of some water to some areas while other areas keep working.

We experienced this in November 2019 in Chatanooga, Tn., when the temps got down to the low teens.
Good point. We used to wrap them in towels or insulation held on with zip ties while we were stationary. Then we found some very well insulated draw string bags of various sizes that we put around the low point and fresh water drains. Works like a charm and is much easier.
Reprobate is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2023, 09:46 AM   #13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2021
Location: Vermont
Posts: 350
I found my rear toilet had a water line running from the sink so it could all be mounted on top of the floor. But for some odd reason the water line drops under the floor for 12 inches then comes up behind the toilet. Makes zero sense. I had this freeze on me as I had no idea it was done this way.
__________________
Travis
2021 Coachmen Mirada 35es
Tskadberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2023, 09:52 AM   #14
Senior Member
 
Old-Biscuit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 24,053
leave cabinet doors open so warm air can circulate inside cabinets
__________________
I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor & NUWA 5vr
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
Old-Biscuit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
free, heat, underbelly



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Palazzo Freezing temperatures freezing pipes freezing occupants iluvuk Palazzo Motorhomes 11 04-10-2018 09:36 AM
Enclosed Tanks Vs. Enclosed Underbelly rideandslide Travel Trailer Discussion 2 11-07-2014 12:09 PM
water leaking from enclosed underbelly Jackrabbit J 5th Wheel Discussion 3 03-16-2012 09:13 PM
"Up pipes" generator exhaust updraft pipes Triton Family Motor Coach Association (FMCA) 19 07-06-2008 12:02 PM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:53 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.