Prospective owner looking for suggestions.

[HFolb23]

Hello All,

I'm here to seek some input from you RV gurus on the purchase of my first TT or 5th wheel.

I'm not new to the RV scene by any means, I've been a squatter in my parents camper for years and now that I'm out on my own I figure it's probably time to leave their Jayco nest too.

My parents are on their second Jayco, first a Jay Flight 26BH and now a Whitehawk 27DSRL. They're now going back and forth on a potential new 5th wheel, but enough about them.

Unfortunately I know only enough about campers to have a pretty good idea of what I'm looking for but not enough to know where to find it.

My major wish list is as follows:

No bunks
Full Outside Kitchen (not the pull out one).
Dinette
Slide in the Bedroom
Couch/Chairs that face the entertainment center.
Smooth-side exterior
I would prefer a TT to keep price down but I'm not opposed to a 5th wheel either.

It's seems that most models can check 80% of my boxes but struggling to find the gem that hits them all. I've been to several dealers and shows but there's not a very large variety of manufacturers in my area.

I am not really limited in terms of towing capabilities or comfort. I have a 2016 Ram 2500 6.7l diesel Crew Cab Short Bed that should be more than enough for anything im looking at. I have a Class A CDL and feel very comfortable driving/backing a 35ft+ TT.

Like any rookie im sure im leaving out some key information that you guys need to help me out but I'll definitely provide anything you ask for.

Thanks in advance
HF

[lynnmor]

You can spend a lot of time running around to dealers or simply do the searching online. Visiting the manufacturers websites will show every model produced. Visiting dealers will show you only what they currently have in stock. Narrow your choices online and then call dealers till you find where you can see those choices.

[Parks]

I am perpetually looking for our first travel trailer. What i seem to find is that I don't want a BH model either and it also seems that I don't ever remember seeing a model with a full outside kitchen that also has a Rear Living (RL) model. Almost like every manufacture that has a complete outside kitchen only comes in a BH model. I could be wrong but that is my recollection. I think because the space required for all the built in outside kitchen utilizes much of the underneith of one of the lower bunk beds.

[Desert Flyer]

RV gurus, eh! Wow, HFolb23, you just put us on a big pedestal. Lots of good input coming...just hang on to the variety of responses you get for your trailer. I don’t have any experience with the large size TT or FW you’re looking at but I will comment on your TV. “...not really limited in towing capabilities...” and “...should be more than enough for anything I’m looking at...” and “...35’+ TT...”. Hmmm. Well, best to start on your TV and figure out its capacity to both “tow” and “haul”, which are two very different things. Once you figure out this crucial information, then you can have fun shopping for your new toy! But first things first...

Your TOWing capacity is simply GCWR (Gross Combined Weight Rating) subtracting your TV’s GVW (Gross Vehicle Weight). Lots of acronyms...best to keep them in mind. Most always your towing capacity as given by the manufacturer in their brochures only applies to the lightest vehicle of that engine, tranny, gearset combination and only with a skinny 150 lb driver and NO options or cargo! This is always somewhat exaggerated for towing bragging rights. To get your “real” towing capacity, you must weigh your fully fueled truck with EVERYTHING in it that would go camping with you. This includes passengers, coolers, toys, tools, cargo in cab and bed, weight of either WDH (weight distributing hitch) or FW hitch, and of course Fido and his water dish. Now you have your real world weight and now simply subtract that from your GCWR to get your TOWing capacity. That’s the easy part.

Your HAULing capacity of your truck is simply (but not quite) your cargo capacity as given by the sticker on your driver’s door frame. This capacity is your GVWR (Gross Vehicle Weight Rating) minus your GVW. But wait, that’s not a real world number. Just as above, your GVW is not a base, unoptioned, unloaded weight; rather it must be determined by weighing your truck and everything in it ready for camping and loaded for bear including hitch. Now your cargo capacity is = GVWR - GVW. This gives you how much extra weight your truck can handle and your new trailer tongue weight cannot exceed this available capacity. But wait, there’s more! Your truck has two axles. When you weigh your truck at a CAT scale, be sure to get all three weights: full weight and front axle weight and rear axle weight. You have a CDL so you know how to do this. Each axle has its own separate GAWR (Gross Axle Weight Rating) again as printed on your door sticker. The critical axle is obviously the rear axle for towing. Subtract actual axle weight from the GAWR and that gives you the additional capacity that the axle can handle. Example: GAWR rear of 5,000 lbs minus actual weight of 3,000 lbs leaves an available capacity of 2,000 lbs. This is more than enough for a large TT but only enough for a small FW.

The third and final piece of the towing/hauling/trailering puzzle is now the trailer. I’m going to paraphrase only (not my numbers but seems to be consensus) what many others have previously said here. A TT should have about 12-13% of its total weight on the front tongue/hitch and a FW should have about 20-22% of its total weight on its kingpin. This is for proper towing stability. Now for weights...just like your TV above, your trailer’s actual fully loaded weight is much heavier than manufacturers advertised brochure dry weights. Their weight is a ficticious number that only includes base vehicle with no options. To get a realistic weight you must add options, option packages, batteries, propane and tanks, spare tire, gel coat siding if not standard equipment, water, etc. This extra weight above “dry” or UVW (Unloaded Vehicle Weight) can add up to hundreds or even 1,000 lbs or more in a large trailer. Next you must add all the cargo and camping “stuff” you will bring with you in the trailer and that can be even more when you fill up all your cargo compartments and lug along that big heavy generator. For this reason, some forum members recommend using the GVWR of the trailer, which is the max Rating of the rig including all cargo. However, for some trailers, the cargo capacity may be large and its GVWR overly conservative.

Once you figure out how much your trailer weighs either by using its GVWR or estimating cargo plus “dry” weight, then multiply by 12.5% if TT or 20% if FW to get actual hitch loads and compare to how much weight you figured above that your truck axle can “haul” and you know if it is OK. Another way to look at it is the inverse equation: take your rear axle available capacity and divide by 0.125 (same as multiply by 8) if TT or divide by 0.20 (same as multiply by 5) if FW. From our earlier example, if your available axle “haul” capacity is 2,000 lbs, multiply by 8 to get 16,000 lbs max fully loaded trailer weight. Double check against your “tow” capacity. This is a very heavy TT. For FW shopping, multiply 2,000 lbs by 5 to get only 10,000 lbs max fully loaded FW weight. You will want a 3500 RAM and maybe even a dually if you want a long and heavy FW.

Now that you KNOW what your TV can actually safely handle versus what you think it can tow, you are now equipped to research the available trailers to fit your needs/wants without wasting your time on what you cannot handle. Sorry for being so long-winded but hopefully this primer gets you on the straight and narrow and in the right direction. Now, what the hell you waitin’ fo’ boy...get goin’!!! ⛺️

[HFolb23]

Thank you all for your responses so far and I appreciate your input.

Here's the specs on my truck. The only time I've had it on a scale so far it came back at 8600lbs. That was me in it, full tank of fuel, and a bed full of 550lbs of scrap.

Payload 2380
Front axle 5750
Rear Axle 6000
Towing 17210
GVWR 10000
GCWR 25300

My comment about being capable enough to tow anything im looking at was based on these models and the numbers I knew for my truck but neglected to share with you all. In terms of being comfortable with the towing a trailer of this size it's nothing I haven't done before. I didn't want you to think I was trying to tow a tri-axle 5th wheel toy hauler with a Toyota Tacoma.

I've spent hours and hours scouring the web looking at floor plans and I've made a list of a few of them below. Most of these weigh in the 8-10k range with a tongue weight between 800-1200lbs.

Keystone Laredo 330RL
Keystone Cougar 33MLs
Flagstaff V Lite 30WRLIKSV
Rockwood 3029V
Jayco 29RLDS
Jayco 34RSBS
Lacrosse 330RST

Parks- Most of the above models are rear livings with outside kitchens. You're correct about hard to find the full outside kitchen without bunks.

I'm hoping someone here is familiar with some of the above models or knows something similar that I've overlooked. The dealers in my area only stock Jayco, Cougar, Avenger, Grand Design, and Passport for the most part. I really like the Jayco dealer and have been in both the models I've listed above, but of course no outside kitchen. I've been in the Lacrosse as well but I really wasn't impressed with the dealer it's at. It's also a used model but I'm not opposed to buying used.

Thanks again for everyone's help so far.