Reverse Polarity Blew my panel?

[travelnoob]

Is it correct that I’m reading 61 volts on each the hot and the neutral leg. Shouldn’t I only get voltage in the hot side? Specially if I’m suppose to be jumping a ground to neutral vis Edison plug?

[Sbrownstein]

Originally Posted by travelnoob

Is it correct that I’m reading 61 volts on each the hot and the neutral leg. Shouldn’t I only get voltage in the hot side? Specially if I’m suppose to be jumping a ground to neutral vis Edison plug?

Wonder where you are measuring from but the Edison adapter will pull the neutral down to 0 and the hot will go up to, in this case 122.

Now you know where your "reverse polarity" was coming from, a neutral at 61 volts probably looks like a hot leg...and actually it kinda is.

[travelnoob]

I used my multimeter and placed one prob in the ground port and then used the other on each side of the 30 amp plug, coming out from the generator. I got 60 each side. Is that normal for a generator maybe it’s some kind of manufacturer defect or something. And would that heat the neutral bar like it did till everything melted?

I think ima call harbor freight and see if they can give me some answers

[vermilye]

Originally Posted by travelnoob

I used my multimeter and placed one prob in the ground port and then used the other on each side of the 30 amp plug, coming out from the generator. I got 60 each side. Is that normal for a generator maybe it’s some kind of manufacturer defect or something. And would that heat the neutral bar like it did till everything melted?

I think ima call harbor freight and see if they can give me some answers

Yes, at least inverter generators)

No.

[Sbrownstein]

Originally Posted by Searching_Ut

I'm confused reading through this. There is mention of being plugged into the "box" with some items connected to an extension cord, and to using the generator to supply power to the rig. If so, potential earth ground through this cord? Probably just me but I'm not clear of configuration and sequence of events.



I have a 3500 watt predator inverter generator. The front panel has a twist lock 30amp receptacle, and it comes with an adapter to plug in a 30amp rv type plug. Mine trips out with a load of around 32 to 33 amps after a few seconds, and trips more quickly with higher loads. Recommended max is 25amps. Mine outputs approx 120 volts until the load starts getting up there a bit then drops down to 116 to 117 or so as you max it out. As to the requirement for an edison plug type ground adapter you do indeed need one with this generator, or in my case the Progressive EMS won't apply power for and open ground fault.

Like he said!!!!

[cavie]

Originally Posted by travelnoob

I used my multimeter and placed one prob in the ground port and then used the other on each side of the 30 amp plug, coming out from the generator. I got 60 each side. Is that normal for a generator maybe it’s some kind of manufacturer defect or something. And would that heat the neutral bar like it did till everything melted?

I think ima call harbor freight and see if they can give me some answers

The problem was with loose neutral bus bar connections and nothing more. The gen will work with or without the Edison plug. The Edison plug is just to satisfy the EMS and your GFI circuits. It's all about the electronics not the electricity. It took a long time to burn those wires like that.The gen was working correctly.

Don't waste your time calling HF. They will no\t have a clue. It you need to call someone call Preditor. They will explain it to you.

[Persistent]

So we established that the 3500 watt Predator generator was not grounded.
The burned wires could be due to a high voltage (lightning strike) but since electrical system worked after lightning it is probably not the cause.

So:
1) 60 volts to ground on both neutral and L2 (hot) pins would be normal using a high impedance voltmeter because generator neutral pin is not grounded.
2) Miss wired adapter or cable is not likely the cause because generator would have to have ground connected to neutral.
3) Over voltage is not likely because generator delivers a maximum of 120 volts.
4) Reverse polarity code on surge protector is normal for ungrounded generator. (neutral pin not connected to ground pin)
5) Multiple burned wires on common buss with melting of adjacent plastic box means high current for a period short or long without current passing through circuit breakers. (or did they?)

Which circuit breakers tripped when generator was plugged in?
Did you smell smoke when the generator was plugged in?
Did you smell smoke when the power went out during a lightning storm?
Did you smell smoke at any time?
There appear to be two bare buss bars. One would be for neutral wires (usually with white insulation) and one for ground wires (usually bare). Were both neutrals and grounds burned (copper damaged or eroded or burned off? The vertical bar seems to have been the one that melted the plastic box. What was connected to that one?
Were any hot (usually black) wires damaged copper or copper burned off?
What did you do to restore power after the lightning storm incident?
Possible causes:
Hot wire entering the TT contacted neutral buss causing neutral bus to get hot and melt plastic box. Generator circuit breaker would have tripped. Ground wires would have been had only minor damage.
Hot wire contacted branch circuit neutral wire causing heat, burning insulation, arching. This could have continued with 30 amps flowing for 30 seconds. Generator circuit breaker could trip after 30 second starting surge time out. Branch wire would eventually vaporize and disconnect.

[travelnoob]

Originally Posted by Persistent

So we established that the 3500 watt Predator generator was not grounded.
The burned wires could be due to a high voltage (lightning strike) but since electrical system worked after lightning it is probably not the cause.

So:
1) 60 volts to ground on both neutral and L2 (hot) pins would be normal using a high impedance voltmeter because generator neutral pin is not grounded.
2) Miss wired adapter or cable is not likely the cause because generator would have to have ground connected to neutral.
3) Over voltage is not likely because generator delivers a maximum of 120 volts.
4) Reverse polarity code on surge protector is normal for ungrounded generator. (neutral pin not connected to ground pin)
5) Multiple burned wires on common buss with melting of adjacent plastic box means high current for a period short or long without current passing through circuit breakers. (or did they?)

Which circuit breakers tripped when generator was plugged in?
Did you smell smoke when the generator was plugged in?
Did you smell smoke when the power went out during a lightning storm?
Did you smell smoke at any time?
There appear to be two bare buss bars. One would be for neutral wires (usually with white insulation) and one for ground wires (usually bare). Were both neutrals and grounds burned (copper damaged or eroded or burned off? The vertical bar seems to have been the one that melted the plastic box. What was connected to that one?
Were any hot (usually black) wires damaged copper or copper burned off?
What did you do to restore power after the lightning storm incident?
Possible causes:
Hot wire entering the TT contacted neutral buss causing neutral bus to get hot and melt plastic box. Generator circuit breaker would have tripped. Ground wires would have been had only minor damage.
Hot wire contacted branch circuit neutral wire causing heat, burning insulation, arching. This could have continued with 30 amps flowing for 30 seconds. Generator circuit breaker could trip after 30 second starting surge time out. Branch wire would eventually vaporize and disconnect.

Did you smell smoke when the generator was plugged in?
Did you smell smoke when the power went out during a lightning storm?
Did you smell smoke at any time?

(((((I never smelt any smoke.)))))


There appear to be two bare buss bars. One would be for neutral wires (usually with white insulation)
and one for ground wires (usually bare). Were both neutrals and grounds burned (copper damaged or eroded or burned off?
The vertical bar seems to have been the one that melted the plastic box. What was connected to that one?
Were any hot (usually black) wires damaged copper or copper burned off?

(((((((Looks like just the neutrals are burned and it looks like the one coming into the trailer (the 30 amp cord was most burned and created the most heat))))))))

What did you do to restore power after the lightning storm incident?

((((((Just flipped the breakers back on.)))))))

[gpounder]

Getting a 60 volt reading is a sign that you have placed two loads in series and that is possible because you may have a split system.

Think of it this way, two completely separated circuits would each have a white and black wire. Each of these circuits have there own white buss bar and they are not connected to each other in the breaker box. This is done to limit power running to the Air conditioners and high current devices whereby the other circuit can get power from a inverter.

So when your plugged in to a 30 (120/220 vac) amp plug it provides one white and 2 black wires. This is a classic 220 configuration that is split for our use in a RV. 50 amp works the same. You get 120 vac to all your stuff.

But if you use a 15 amp adapter then depending on the adapter it may supply black wire voltage to both the legs of the system. Now you must be sure not to turn on high current stuff.

Now back to the idea that somehow you have placed the loads in series. The way that happens is somehow the two white buss bars get connected (they are isolated in the breaker box) together AND those white wires do not get connected to the white wire power source. This configuration can be survivable when your connected to a 220 service but if it is 110 then you get the power split/divided by 2 to measure 60 volts.

Now why did your buss bar melt down, not sure but you may have exceed the wire rating for the crossed wire as it took the entire load of the system or your devices drew high current when only powered by 60 volts.

What I do not know is what you did to start the problem. You need to go back to that instance and reassess what you did, undo it etc.

If you are still trying to figure this out PM me and pass my number to help you.

[Sbrownstein]

Originally Posted by gpounder

Getting a 60 volt reading is a sign that you have placed two loads in series and that is possible because you may have a split system...

If I understand his measurement technique, the OP measured the voltage on the generator receptacle. He has 60 volts between ground and the hot lead and 61 volts between the neutral and ground. Presumably he has 120 volts between the hot and neutral, which is correct. His neutral is floating and if he connects it to ground, he will then have 120 volts between hot and ground and 0 volts between neutral and ground. All is well there.

[rg4bs]

I think my head to going to explode!

[twinboat]

Originally Posted by gpounder

Getting a 60 volt reading is a sign that you have placed two loads in series and that is possible because you may have a split system.

Think of it this way, two completely separated circuits would each have a white and black wire. Each of these circuits have there own white buss bar and they are not connected to each other in the breaker box. This is done to limit power running to the Air conditioners and high current devices whereby the other circuit can get power from a inverter.

So when your plugged in to a 30 (120/220 vac) amp plug it provides one white and 2 black wires. This is a classic 220 configuration that is split for our use in a RV. 50 amp works the same. You get 120 vac to all your stuff.

But if you use a 15 amp adapter then depending on the adapter it may supply black wire voltage to both the legs of the system. Now you must be sure not to turn on high current stuff.

Now back to the idea that somehow you have placed the loads in series. The way that happens is somehow the two white buss bars get connected (they are isolated in the breaker box) together AND those white wires do not get connected to the white wire power source. This configuration can be survivable when your connected to a 220 service but if it is 110 then you get the power split/divided by 2 to measure 60 volts.

Now why did your buss bar melt down, not sure but you may have exceed the wire rating for the crossed wire as it took the entire load of the system or your devices drew high current when only powered by 60 volts.

What I do not know is what you did to start the problem. You need to go back to that instance and reassess what you did, undo it etc.

If you are still trying to figure this out PM me and pass my number to help you.

What ???

Two things in series ?

30 amp 220 volt outlet ?

Floating neutral generators read 60 volts to ground. Normal.

The OPs generator does not produce 220 volts.

[Persistent]

Originally Posted by travelnoob

Did you smell smoke when the generator was plugged in?
Did you smell smoke when the power went out during a lightning storm?
Did you smell smoke at any time?

(((((I never smelt any smoke.)))))


There appear to be two bare buss bars. One would be for neutral wires (usually with white insulation)
and one for ground wires (usually bare). Were both neutrals and grounds burned (copper damaged or eroded or burned off?
The vertical bar seems to have been the one that melted the plastic box. What was connected to that one?
Were any hot (usually black) wires damaged copper or copper burned off?

(((((((Looks like just the neutrals are burned and it looks like the one coming into the trailer (the 30 amp cord was most burned and created the most heat))))))))

What did you do to restore power after the lightning storm incident?

((((((Just flipped the breakers back on.)))))))

We are back to which breakers tripped at which incident.
If the main breaker in the TT tripped, that means more than 30 amps through the breaker.
If branch breakers in the TT tripped, that means more than 15 amps through the branch circuity.
If pedestal breaker tripped during lightning, more than 30 amps at that time.
If Generator breaker tripped, that means more that 30 amps at that time.

Tripping the breakers protects the circuits. Burned wires means the circuit was not protected. Wires in the distribution box burned and so the current must not have flowed through breakers. If the generator flow burned the wires, the breaker in the generator would have tripped.

Did the generator breaker trip?

Very interesting!

I am starting to entertain the idea that there was more than two incidents.
You did not smell smoke at any time. Yet smoke must have been generated. A substantial amount of copper and insulation was vaporized or burned.

There may have been a second lightning strike when TT was not occupied. It is possible the second strike caused the damage. Once wires burned off they may have shorted. Vibration from towing the TT may have dislodged a damaged wire causing a short circuit. The first connection to the generator finished them off. The generator will run high starting current for about 30 seconds before tripping its circuit breaker.

None of this makes really good sense. The extensive damage should not have been caused by the generator. It has a circuit breaker that certainly would have protected the shore power cord.

A lightning strike could easily cause the damage and trip circuit breakers at the same time. Arching across terminals and through insulation is a hallmark of a lightning strike. However, I can't see how smoke was not produced when the lightning struck.

A second strike on the distribution panel area would leave signs on the TT walls unless the shore power cord was attached. Also, smoke would have been generated and some trace would probably remain when you reopened the TT.

In any case you have a lot of electrical parts to replace. The generator is probably OK and probably did not cause the damage.

I wish you good luck with the repairs.

[Sbrownstein]

Originally Posted by Persistent

...In any case you have a lot of electrical parts to replace. The generator is probably OK and probably did not cause the damage.

Agree completely. The bus is easy to replace, the case can stay the way it is and hopefully the neutral wires that were burnt are still long enough to reconnect without splicing.

I also believe that once you have those things fixed, your generator will easily power your A/C as well as your chest freezer.