Solar vs Generator

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by rarebear.nm

I do not believe that solar is a solve all for all locations. Nor is anything else. But given correct conditions it works quite well. The concept that you need full sun for solar to work is old FUD and plain BS. Many solar companies are marketing bifacial, double sided, solar panels. The bottom side does not get direct sun, but still produces enough power for it to be cost effective. The key point is that better solar panels are cost effective power producers in reduced light conditions. Sure some panels still being sold will not function well in low light.

I really don't get why some folks keep trying to insist that solar power does not/can not/won't work? I saw plenty of places in Alaska with solar panels. They were mounted nearly vertical for the low sun angle but still being used.

As the world's electrical power demand grows I think we need to use many different types of power generation to meet the need.

Completely overcast with some fog all day today in the Galveston area.
I can normally make 35 kwh per day in good sun, but today only 5 kwh. Not much, but still enough to power my car for 20 miles.
You are right, every little bit helps. Not very PC, and has its drawbacks, but the new nuclear power plant technology looks promising.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by jcussen

You are right, every little bit helps. Not very PC, and has its drawbacks, but the new nuclear power plant technology looks promising.

No every little bit does not help. It is a drain on resources. While energy from the sun and wind may be renewable, the equipment to convert the energy to a useful form is not renewable.

I also have to wonder what new nuclear technology you are talking about? Producing huge amounts of power with fission was not new 50 years ago when I joined the navy.

If solar was a good idea on house or RV, I would have it. Solar and EV are toys for rich people. If you look at tags lines, so are many RVs.

There is nothing wrong with rich people having toys. Being rich and having toys is not qualification for giving advice.

On the other hand being rich and having toys does not mean you could not be very qualified. Me for example.

My advice get the cheapest generator from Harbor Freight to charge your batteries.

[KanzKran]

Originally Posted by followingsea

I also have to wonder what new nuclear technology you are talking about? Producing huge amounts of power with fission was not new 50 years ago when I joined the navy.

Probably either Next Gen reactors, or maybe Thorium reactors, both of which are supposedly inherently safe in that they will shut themselves down to a safe state without operator interaction.

But I only follow this stuff from a very long arm’s reach, and therefore have no knowledge of it other than being vaguely aware that they exist. In fact, the first Thorium reactor was built in the 1950’s I think, probably at Oak Ridge. Not new, but never developed for large-scale power generation.

[Bobby F]

Originally Posted by followingsea

My advice get the cheapest generator from Harbor Freight to charge your batteries.

And then go park waaaaaaay over there . . .

[hclarkx]

Originally Posted by creativepart

Solar is great for charging your house batteries. It can make boondocking more pleasant and capable. But it's not a replacement for a generator for running AC and large loads like long microwaving sessions, etc.

Sure, with 1200w of solar, 3000w of inverter and 600aH of LiPo batteries you can do most everything without the need for a generator. But it's still more or less not for running Air Conditioning more than an hour or two here than there.

You can count on spending ~$10,000 for the above set up. OR you can buy a 3,000w Honda Generator with electric start for 1/3rd that amount and none of the limitations.

This is not quite my experience. Caveat though, we travel 5 months of the year in a 30' 5'er and avoid late June, July, and August so don't need A/C. But we do boondock/dry camp exclusively. We use the 1600W generator twice per year or less and that's only for battery charging after an extended period of inclement weather. The generator could run our A/C but we don't use it for that.

We have a 300 AH LFP battery and 600W of solar. Total investment $4200. That's $2700 for the battery and the rest for two solar controllers, a 60amp charger, and six solar panels. Self-installed. We can endure a week of modest to no sun before running the generator to re-charge.

We power a 1000W espresso maker, a microwave, a CPAP machine, a toaster, etc. The microwave is a Panasonic inverter type and will work on a 600W inverter (our inverter is 900W) if you use level 5 and double the cooking time for cases where you would otherwise use full power.

Anyone that's handy or shops carefully doesn't need to spend $10K to have a solar system that minimizes generator use.

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by followingsea

No every little bit does not help. It is a drain on resources. While energy from the sun and wind may be renewable, the equipment to convert the energy to a useful form is not renewable.

I also have to wonder what new nuclear technology you are talking about? Producing huge amounts of power with fission was not new 50 years ago when I joined the navy.

If solar was a good idea on house or RV, I would have it. Solar and EV are toys for rich people. If you look at tags lines, so are many RVs.

There is nothing wrong with rich people having toys. Being rich and having toys is not qualification for giving advice.

On the other hand being rich and having toys does not mean you could not be very qualified. Me for example.

My advice get the cheapest generator from Harbor Freight to charge your batteries.

Guess you have not flown into Honolulu lately. From the air you can see that probably 1/2 the homes and businesses there have solar panels on the roof. Some of the homes look pretty small and shabby looking, so guessing they are not all rich, and don't treat their solar panels as "toys". All grid power there comes from oil and gas burning power plants, and all the oil and gas is imported to the islands. The average price per Kwh there is 30 cents, so the poor people with solar panels can actually save money by selling the power they produce back to the power company to offset their electric bill.
Here in South Texas, average payback on a installed home solar system is 11.86 years and the average cost per grid kwh is only 12 cents. After that you can be a rich person because your electricity is FREE.
Some people are still stuck in the 90s when solar was $2 a watt. Now it is 35 cents a watt, so not a rich man's toy anymore.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by Bobby F

And then go park waaaaaaay over there . . .

X TWO!

[R.Wold]

I was just in my sons shop yesterday and saw another complete Nissan Leaf battery sitting in his bench - 2018 version so 40kwh I think. Not sure what it’s destined for but I’m doubling mine so I’ll have around 50 kWh which should let me run my ac through the night. Right now I can only get til midnight or 1am.

I’m certain the mining and processing of lithium, and the production and construction of lithium batteries is really awful, but it powers my toys so I’ll keep using it, charging them with my equally horrid solar panels, and feel totally vindicated by using the quiet power of the sun instead of gas or diesel in a noisy generator.

And if it gets cloudy, well, I’ll follow the sun��������

This thread was about solar v. gen, right?

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by R.Wold

I was just in my sons shop yesterday and saw another complete Nissan Leaf battery sitting in his bench - 2018 version so 40kwh I think. Not sure what it’s destined for but I’m doubling mine so I’ll have around 50 kWh which should let me run my ac through the night. Right now I can only get til midnight or 1am.

I’m certain the mining and processing of lithium, and the production and construction of lithium batteries is really awful, but it powers my toys so I’ll keep using it, charging them with my equally horrid solar panels, and feel totally vindicated by using the quiet power of the sun instead of gas or diesel in a noisy generator.

And if it gets cloudy, well, I’ll follow the sun��������

This thread was about solar v. gen, right?

I feel your pain, have driven my EV for the last 1000 miles for FREE, only powered by solar.

[hclarkx]

Originally Posted by jcussen

Guess you have not flown into Honolulu lately. From the air you can see that probably 1/2 the homes and businesses there have solar panels on the roof. Some of the homes look pretty small and shabby looking, so guessing they are not all rich, and don't treat their solar panels as "toys". All grid power there comes from oil and gas burning power plants, and all the oil and gas is imported to the islands. The average price per Kwh there is 30 cents, so the poor people with solar panels can actually save money by selling the power they produce back to the power company to offset their electric bill.
Here in South Texas, average payback on a installed home solar system is 11.86 years and the average cost per grid kwh is only 12 cents. After that you can be a rich person because your electricity is FREE.
Some people are still stuck in the 90s when solar was $2 a watt. Now it is 35 cents a watt, so not a rich man's toy anymore.

Yes! In places like Hawaii where electricity costs up around 30 cents per kWH, solar is a no-brainer. It's even more on the Big Island. Here in Northern CA PG&E rates average just under 30 cents per kWH. If you can't afford solar, have a solar company install it and split the proceeds with you. After a few years you own it. AT these rates solar has a 3 or 4 year payback time. Texas at $0.12 makes solar a tougher sell though as you note, solar costs are dropping and panels are becoming ever more efficient.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by jcussen

I feel your pain, have driven my EV for the last 1000 miles for FREE, only powered by solar.

He’s got a Chevy volt, Polaris ev, elec riding mower, all elec appliances, and about 25kw of solar, sells power back to pg&e, and drives a patrol car back and forth from home to work. He basically lives almost utility and fuel free. And generator free too- he’s had a few including on his 5th wheel but sold them all . He has around 1200w of solar on the 5er and lots of li-ion battery reserves. So he’s living proof that solar can replace a genny, although he’s somewhat extreme about it all. He even burns my waste oil in his diesel truck.

[jcussen]

Originally Posted by hclarkx

Yes! In places like Hawaii where electricity costs up around 30 cents per kWH, solar is a no-brainer. It's even more on the Big Island. Here in Northern CA PG&E rates average just under 30 cents per kWH. If you can't afford solar, have a solar company install it and split the proceeds with you. After a few years you own it. AT these rates solar has a 3 or 4 year payback time. Texas at $0.12 makes solar a tougher sell though as you note, solar costs are dropping and panels are becoming ever more efficient.

You are right about the big island, when I worked over there on a ship, several crew members lived on the big island with no grid access, and lived on solar only. They had no aircon because it was not really necessary. They seemed to like the no electric bills, and most did not have generators.

[R.Wold]

Originally Posted by jcussen

You are right about the big island, when I worked over there on a ship, several crew members lived on the big island with no grid access, and lived on solar only. They had no aircon because it was not really necessary. They seemed to like the no electric bills, and most did not have generators.

I had a house in Kona for a few years, about 400’ up the hill from Kahului Bay. The house didn’t have heat or AC - just open louvres with screen behind them, so it was always the same temp inside and out. Worked just fine. Also the home office was outside on the Lanai. So a small solar system there would be all you need.

[followingsea]

Originally Posted by jcussen

Guess you have not flown into Honolulu lately. ....South Texas, ...

You would be wrong. Flew in to Honolulu on the way back from the 1600 + MWe nuke plant in China. I have a recently been by the nuke plants called South Texas Project where I have done work.

I have also been paid to develop business plans for renewable energy projects.

I have also taken the 'free' ferry to Galveston Island and the 'free' Staten Island Ferry.

I drive a $1500 25 year old Honda Civic and have a $88 generator to charge batteries.

Somethings last a long time. Somethings do not cost a lot of money.

If i can get the job done spending a lot less money, I do not think you are saving anything and it certainly not free.