To equalize (hitch) or not

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Firehoser75

Some RVer's don't understand that there is much more to "overloading" than just the various ratings of the truck or fifth wheel, or TT.
You can potentially be overloaded in one or more of the following areas:
Total hitched weight of both units
Individual weight of either unit as loaded and used
Individual axle weight
Even individual tire or wheel weight
For safety reasons, all must be within their specified limits. Many people do not follow or may not even know these limits and "get away with it". Some don't !
Many RVer's regularly exceed (some by fairly large amounts) the speed rating of the trailer tires. Many "get away with this" as well. Some do not and experience a blow out or worse. They have a speed rating for a reason.

Dave, it sounds like you have a good understanding of your loads, and that you plan to verify this by weighing your unit. Good idea. As far as sway control, why avoid it. For a small cost in dollars and "extra" work hitching and unhitching, why not opt for the "peace of mind" that having additional sway control might bring?

JMHO.

The "why not" is potentially introducing oversteer and loss of traction on the drive axle in low traction conditions. I'm pretty much convinced that I don't need a WD hitch to redistribute the load and my front steering axle has more weight than it needs due to the 1200lb engine.....so the ONLY reason to use a WD hitch would be to reduce sway.....and I'm not sure thats a concern in my case. If the only negative is the cost of the hitch, I"ll gladly buy one.....but I'm not sure it will actually work better.

Since I started this thread I did take the trailer on a short trip using just the ball, it was rock steady but I didn't get over 60mph.

Dave

[Dave Pelletier]

...and, yes, I'll weigh everything but I expect I'll be less than half the ratings on tires, axles, gvwr, gcwr, etc. I'll probably have to air the rear tires down to 65 psi to keep the ride decent and have the proper contact patch.....the dry trailer didn't compress the springs enough for the overloads to engage - hopefully loading it up and filling the water tank will allow them to engage.

Dave

[davis2]

Dave, I've followed this thread for a while, and it sounds like you have a strong idea of what you're doing. If you are comfortable with a regular hitch, do it. Your experiences will guide any further decisions. Enjoy!

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by davis2

Dave, I've followed this thread for a while, and it sounds like you have a strong idea of what you're doing. If you are comfortable with a regular hitch, do it. Your experiences will guide any further decisions. Enjoy!

Thanks, I didnt start this discussion with my decision already made and I'm cautious to avoid confirmation bias but during the course of the discussions and considering the valuable responses, I will admit to leaning away from the wd hitch with my current setup at this time. I will be the first one to change my tune if I discover any undue trailer movement without one!

Cheers,
Dave

[Blackey Cole]

Two questions

1.) do you pull the trailer with friends and or love ones? Sorry there’s a part 2 if the answer to the question is no the can your family get along financially if you are injured to the point that your unable to work anymore or worst. Plus add in civil suits for not following the law or Highway refs.

2.) if you have a blowout on thr trailer it starts fishtailing back I. Forth going further it time until it’s sideways to your drive drain and rolls both the trailer which will be destroyed and the truck on its side at best.the letter happened to me with a anti sway traction bar I thought it was one of the best but I had an object on the tt rear bumper that thru things out of wack wasn’t aware until it happened I thought it was the wind before.

[NevadaNick]

Blackey, you had your trailer loaded wrong, that has nothing to do with needing a wd hitch.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by Blackey Cole

Two questions

1.) do you pull the trailer with friends and or love ones? Sorry there’s a part 2 if the answer to the question is no the can your family get along financially if you are injured to the point that your unable to work anymore or worst. Plus add in civil suits for not following the law or Highway refs.

2.) if you have a blowout on thr trailer it starts fishtailing back I. Forth going further it time until it’s sideways to your drive drain and rolls both the trailer which will be destroyed and the truck on its side at best.the letter happened to me with a anti sway traction bar I thought it was one of the best but I had an object on the tt rear bumper that thru things out of wack wasn’t aware until it happened I thought it was the wind before.

As NevadaNick said, you had your trailer loaded wrong and no WD hitch would likely have changed the outcome. I had friends who insisted hauling a motorcycle on the bumper of their 22ft TT despite my warnings; after a near crash on the first trip they had a welder weld a pin on the front of the trailer to add weight to counteract the bike which overloaded the frame....they sold the trailer shortly afterwards.

If a trailer is inherently stable and has the proper tongue weight, in the event of something causing sway, the amplitude will decrease with each cycle until the trailer is tracking true again.....if it is unstable, the amplitude will increase until control is lost......just like in the little model demonstrations we've all seen.

I'm unconvinced that a WD setup would help (lessening trailer movement due to wind gusts, etc.) more than it would hurt (removing weight/traction from the drive axle in low traction conditions inducing oversteer).

Maybe the best answer is to have a WD hitch and use the bars for high speed highway runs in good traction conditions and remove them offroad and in low traction conditions. Maybe a dedicated sway control device would be a better choice than a WD hitch and bars since I don't need to worry about axle weights.......Tralier is parked for the winter now so I have several months to decide.

Thanks for all the input

Dave

[Bluej777 x]

When I was pulling a trailer similar in size with a dually I used the equalization simply because I had it before getting the one ton. (Had half ton where I had to use it). Set it quite loose. I wouldn’t use it / get one myself. That truck is plenty for that.

[tuffr2]

I do not use one on my F-250 but let me explain. 95% of my travel is on back roads right now. The truck does not need it at the slower speeds I am traveling. Around 35 to 50 mph.

If I were to do more highway driving I probably would use one. A WD will tie the truck and trailer together better than just the ball.

I my mind, a WD also helps with sway. I had a F-150 towing a 5,500lb travel trailer with a Drawtite WD hitch. Zero sway and no effect with passing semi's or when I passed them.

[davis2]

Originally Posted by tuffr2

I do not use one on my F-250 but let me explain. 95% of my travel is on back roads right now. The truck does not need it at the slower speeds I am traveling. Around 35 to 50 mph.

If I were to do more highway driving I probably would use one. A WD will tie the truck and trailer together better than just the ball.

I my mind, a WD also helps with sway. I had a F-150 towing a 5,500lb travel trailer with a Drawtite WD hitch. Zero sway and no effect with passing semi's or when I passed them.

I use a WD hitch with sway control. They recommended it when I bought my first camper. I feel it may be unnecessary on local roads, but is necessary on anything resembling an Interstate. My opinion is to go what you're comfortable with, as long as you load properly.

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by move on

Here is another link.

https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?...view=1up&seq=1

This study was done by Richard H Klein for the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration in 1977. It is the definitive study on weight distribution hitches. He calls them a necessary evil as they can destabilize the tow vehicle. They were necessary back them because nobody had access to a decent sized tow vehicle.

I read most of that study; very interesting - they note both pros and cons but most of the pros don't apply to me (vehicle attitude, headlight aiming, etc.) and the reduction in sway was noted as moderate.... The tendance for oversteer and earlier onset of jack knifing remains a concern.

The study was done in 1977 and they noted the effect of trailer braking to counteract sway which of course, is exactly what the new trucks do with their electronic sway control. ......which has me thinking that this may be a good solution for my truck (which doesn't have any electronic aids); https://www.etrailer.com/Weight-Dist...s/HA81775.html


Dave

[Dave Pelletier]

Originally Posted by NeilV

If it unloads the front axle then you will need the WD hitch. Yes in certain situations you may find it requires less tension on the torsion bars to maintain balance which many times is due to having stiffer bars than required for the combination. A lot depends on the distance between the center line of the axle and the hitch ball. Archimedes still rules as far as leverage is concerned. You would likely need lighter torsion bars if you find the front end gets too light then for the Bigfoot camper.

On my old truck an 1970 Power Wagon W200 E20 Special which had 12 leafs in the springs and a W600 drive train sectioned at the factory to fit the track of a W200 plus an 8 Ton PTO Winch with 200 feet of 5/8 inch Steel Cable on Extended Frame Rails sticking out of the front of the truck along with a Custom AutoCar Style Structural Steel Step Bumper on either side of the winch and a Fisher Severe Duty Snow Plow Frame mounted underneath so that it was very front heavy, did not require an equalizing hitch for a 700 lb tongue weight.

.

I re-read your post and it sounds like you're saying that any weight reduction on the front axle needs to be adjusted out with a WD hitch though you then go on to describe your PW that didn't need WD...

My truck is rated with a GAWR of 5200 lbs front and 9350 lbs rear. Truck weight with a full tank of diesel is 8338 lbs and GVWR is 12,000.

Thinking of Archimedes, the ball is about 5' behind the rear axle and the front axle is 14' ahead of the rear axle. This means that any down leverage on the hitch ball should equate to a 36% equal reduction in the front axle weight. I anticipate my fully loaded traler tongue weight to be in the 900 - 1000 lb range with trailer GVWR around 7,000 lbs (this based on four weights given by other 21RBS owners). .....soooo....hooking up the trailer without a WD hitch should unload the front axle by about 360 lbs....which sounds like a lot but my truck is equipped with a 5.9l Cummins engine which weighs in at a whopping 1,120 lbs (in fact the CTD Ram is often criticized for the front end weight). In comparison a 5.7 liter Hemi, which is the base engine for this truck weighs 485lbs or 635lbs less. Even with a 1000 lb trailer tongue load 5' behind the axle, I have 275lbs MORE front axle weight than an unloaded Ram3500 with the 5.7 Hemi.

Thoughts?

Dave

[Dave Pelletier]

Oh, and I just found my weights from when I weighed my truck;

- Front axle; 4730 lbs (GAWR 5200lbs)
- Rear axle; 3608 lbs (GAWR 9350 lbs)
- Total GVW; 8338 lbs (including me, a full tank of diesel and misc. "stuff" in the interior)
- GVWR is 12,000 lbs

Real payload is just under 4,000 lbs to be within the ratings though the RAWR has 5,742 lbs capacity before being overloaded.

Tires are rated at 3085 lbs single so 6170 lbs on the front axle and 2835 lbs dual so 11,340 lbs on the rear. ....tires are clearly not part of any determining factor for me


Dave

[lola and i]

Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier

Oh, and I just found my weights from when I weighed my truck;

- Front axle; 4730 lbs (GAWR 5200lbs)
- Rear axle; 3608 lbs (GAWR 9350 lbs)
- Total GVW; 8338 lbs (including me, a full tank of diesel and misc. "stuff" in the interior)
- GVWR is 12,000 lbs

Real payload is just under 4,000 lbs to be within the ratings though the RAWR has 5,742 lbs capacity before being overloaded.

Tires are rated at 3085 lbs single so 6170 lbs on the front axle and 2835 lbs dual so 11,340 lbs on the rear. ....tires are clearly not part of any determining factor for me


Dave

It sure seems that you have a good understanding of your situation, congrats. My 1cent suggestion would be to thoroughly investigate the Anderson weight distribution system, it really doesn't do as much for weight distribution as the name implies and that is good for you. The best thing about the Anderson hitch is the rock steady sway and bounce control, the easy hitch/unhitch and it's silent operation is also a plus. You can also easily customize the amount of weight distribution as needed as your trip load weight changes.

Here's a link to get you started.

https://youtu.be/HRoQ_yQZQwQ