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01-03-2021, 09:52 AM
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#99
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 1,603
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I like that 5" rule. It's very simple and easy. My question is, what percent of the rear GAWR are you at when the hitch is down 5"?
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01-03-2021, 11:59 AM
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#100
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by move on
I like that 5" rule. It's very simple and easy. My question is, what percent of the rear GAWR are you at when the hitch is down 5"?
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Good question; that may work for one truck.....but they are all different, of course. My truck goes down less than 4" with 4000 lbs in the box.
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01-03-2021, 10:55 PM
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#101
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercee
It is very unlikely that your truck has the above posted payload. The info listed is the Ford published brochure specs and only apply to a base model (XL) 2-wheel drive Super Cab equipped with the Heavy Duty Payload Package (HDPP). Each truck has its own unique payload and is dependent on vehicle trim level, cab configuration etc. Payload is calculated by taking the weight of the vehicle with a full tank of gas and subtracting it from its listed GVWR.
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I'm a bit confused why you think it's unlikely that I have that configuration? I also don't understand why it's so difficult figuring out how much any particular F150 can tow?
I have the 2WD 157" SuperCrew 5.5 foot bed with the Max Trailer Tow package that includes the 3.55 electric lock rear axle, 20" tires, and a 36 gallon gas tank. According to the various links to the "Ford RV and Trailer Towing Guide" and the "Ford F150 Towing Selector," this truck can tow between 10800# and 14000# with a max payload of 3250 (2045) on the yellow Tire and Loading sticker on the door jam.
Given the specs on this truck and the trailer we're considering has a GVWR 8800# that's a difference of approximately 2000#-#5200# under what the truck is rated for. plus lets say the tongue weight is .15 of the GVWR of the trailer at 1320#, that's 720# under the worst-case-scenario for payload, I don't quite understand why this truck wouldn't work?
I get it, our mileage may vary, and don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that it is enough, I'm trying to understand why it isn't enough. In '78 I had an F250 with a 390 V8 and a cab-over-camper. That truck was a tank but I doubt it could carry or tow nearly as much as the new F150's. These trucks just aren't our grandfathers half tons. We have an 18' work trailer that weighs 5-6K# that I tow behind this truck and a 3/4 ton Transit, they both tow it like its not even there but the F150 tows it much easier than the F250 Transit. The worst thing that happens is the gas mileage is somewhere around 14 MPG. I think the Transit has a max tow of 6600#.
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01-03-2021, 11:03 PM
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#102
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cekkk
I guess television's talking heads all agree that "acronym" is far more sophisticated than "abbreviation." I blame them for teaching us that any abbreviation is an acronym . Taint so. All acronyms are abbreviations, but all abbreviations are not acronyms. As I listened to the above video clip I didn't catch a single acronym being used. Just to be clear, NASA is an acronym. FBI is not. Cut me a little slack on this because I made my living with words.
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I hope you realize that this movie was a comedy and therefore my attempt at adding humor to the discussion. You'll have to cut me some slack because after serving in the military I think all acronyms are a joke.
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01-04-2021, 06:00 AM
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#103
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 525
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Av8Chuck, check your info.
The 157" WB is the 6.5' bed, not the 5.5' bed that you state that you have.
Your window sticker states what the GCWR is.
The yellow sticker in the door jamb states the payload capacity.
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01-04-2021, 06:10 AM
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#104
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,669
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I love these threads. Just when I think I have it figured out, something throws me for a loop. We're towing a tt with a Dodge Durango (look up the threads I've started on the subject if you're interested). I've finally convinced myself by doing actual weights that I am not exceeding the tow limits of my vehicle. Of course, this does NOT take into account the aerodynamic loading a tt introduces or the pushing around you get from strong wind or trucks passing you by.
For most of my camping needs (short trips, no big mountains), this set up will do fine. Even with my relatively light tt I'd prefer to be towing with a 1/2 ton truck. I just don't need a truck and am not interested in a 3rd vehicle just for towing.
And while you might say that if I had a bigger tow vehicle, I'd probably buy a bigger trailer, I can tell you that after owning several different trailers and MHs I'm quite content with this small trailer as it is easy to maneuver and can sit in my driveway without blocking up the sidewalk.
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01-04-2021, 06:16 AM
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#105
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2020
Location: Sun City West, AZ
Posts: 412
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av8Chuck
I'm a bit confused why you think it's unlikely that I have that configuration? I also don't understand why it's so difficult figuring out how much any particular F150 can tow?
I have the 2WD 157" SuperCrew 5.5 foot bed with the Max Trailer Tow package that includes the 3.55 electric lock rear axle, 20" tires, and a 36 gallon gas tank. According to the various links to the "Ford RV and Trailer Towing Guide" and the "Ford F150 Towing Selector," this truck can tow between 10800# and 14000# with a max payload of 3250 (2045) on the yellow Tire and Loading sticker on the door jam.
Given the specs on this truck and the trailer we're considering has a GVWR 8800# that's a difference of approximately 2000#-#5200# under what the truck is rated for. plus lets say the tongue weight is .15 of the GVWR of the trailer at 1320#, that's 720# under the worst-case-scenario for payload, I don't quite understand why this truck wouldn't work?
I get it, our mileage may vary, and don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting that it is enough, I'm trying to understand why it isn't enough. In '78 I had an F250 with a 390 V8 and a cab-over-camper. That truck was a tank but I doubt it could carry or tow nearly as much as the new F150's. These trucks just aren't our grandfathers half tons. We have an 18' work trailer that weighs 5-6K# that I tow behind this truck and a 3/4 ton Transit, they both tow it like its not even there but the F150 tows it much easier than the F250 Transit. The worst thing that happens is the gas mileage is somewhere around 14 MPG. I think the Transit has a max tow of 6600#.
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My primary point was to ensure you were aware that payload value is specific to your truck. Payload is simply your truck's GVWR minus what the truck weighs at any given time.
When YOUR truck left the factory it was weighed - the weight of a full tank of gas was also factored in. This weight was subtracted from the GVWR and stamped on the yellow/white door sticker as the cargo carrying capacity (payload). Your remark about ' 720 under the worst case scenario, confused me. I might be misconstruing what you are saying, but I get the impression you think you have this published payload range to work with.
You do not. You have what is on the sticker for your truck, and that's it.
Now, since you've likely added things to your truck after purchase (toolbox, tonneau cover etc.) your payload may even be less than what your door sticker says. The only way to know for sure is to fill the tank, load up the truck for camping (include all people, pets, the hitch, gear in the truck etc.) and go weigh it. Subtract this weight from your truck's GVWR and see what's left. This figure is what you have to support the tongue weight of your trailer.
I'm not saying you can't tow your trailer. I had a '19 F150 max tow with 1873 pounds of payload that I towed our 9500 GVWR (scaled at 8600 at the time) TT with - I was barely under rear axle rating and had a couple hundred pounds of payload to spare - and we carried hardly anything in the truck. I didn't have any real issues hauling it around locally, but just didn't feel comfortable going cross country with it, so we went to a 1-ton for the added stability.
__________________
2022 Rockwood Signature 8324SB TT, 36' 8", 11,115 lb GVWR
2019 Ford F350 CCSB, 6.2L gas, 2WD, 4.30 gears
2020 Keystone Cougar 'Half-Ton' 29RLKWE, 33'.3", 9500 lb GVWR - Sold
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01-04-2021, 10:56 AM
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#106
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercee
My primary point was to ensure you were aware that payload value is specific to your truck. Payload is simply your truck's GVWR minus what the truck weighs at any given time.
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Thanks. I realize that, I was hoping that somehow I could figure out the GVWR without having to weigh the truck.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercee
When YOUR truck left the factory it was weighed - the weight of a full tank of gas was also factored in. This weight was subtracted from the GVWR and stamped on the yellow/white door sticker as the cargo carrying capacity (payload). Your remark about '720 under the worst case scenario, confused me. I might be misconstruing what you are saying, but I get the impression you think you have this published payload range to work with.
You do not. You have what is on the sticker for your truck, and that's it.
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Sorry, I'm Australian which means English is my second language... What I meant by "worst case scenario" is using the numbers from the yellow/white door sticker it's still 720# within limit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mistercee
I'm not saying you can't tow your trailer. I had a '19 F150 max tow with 1873 pounds of payload that I towed our 9500 GVWR (scaled at 8600 at the time) TT with - I was barely under rear axle rating and had a couple hundred pounds of payload to spare - and we carried hardly anything in the truck. I didn't have any real issues hauling it around locally, but just didn't feel comfortable going cross country with it, so we went to a 1-ton for the added stability.
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Everyone should go through this exercise to figure out their own specs to help determine their own margin of safety. I find all the acronyms, abbreviations, variables, whatever engineers like to call them a bit frustrating. Thanks for your patience.
Part of the reason this exercise is important is not just for the safety aspect but as I mentioned earlier, these are not our grandfathers F150's, neither are the F250's. Certainly equally more capable but at a huge cost starting around $65K. So if I have to upgrade my truck to accommodate the trailer my wife wants that additional expense might influence the purchase of a Class-C or small Class-A motorhome. But that for a different thread.
Thanks everyone.
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01-04-2021, 11:37 AM
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#107
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 46
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Kind of a related question.
Do the trailer axels act as a fulcrum such that when loading the trailer placing weight aft of the wheels lessons the tongue weight?
Also, does moving the moment aft make the trailer less stable?
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01-04-2021, 11:47 AM
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#108
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,085
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yes placing weight behind the axles lessens tongue weight and no.....if the wheels are farther rearward, you have more tongue weight which increases stability.....but nobody wants a TT with 4,000 lbs tongue weight either.
Dave
__________________
2022 Outdoors RV 25RDS, 2022 F350 dually, 6.7PSD, 10 spd, 3.55's
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01-04-2021, 05:08 PM
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#109
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Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Pelletier
yes placing weight behind the axles lessens tongue weight and no.....if the wheels are farther rearward, you have more tongue weight which increases stability.....but nobody wants a TT with 4,000 lbs tongue weight either.
Dave
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OK, but my questions was if I put the weight further back, not the wheels.
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01-04-2021, 05:13 PM
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#110
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Kelowna, B.C. Canada
Posts: 3,085
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Av8Chuck
OK, but my questions was if I put the weight further back, not the wheels.
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Sorry I wasn't sure what " does moving the moment aft make the trailer less stable?" meant.
weight in front of the axles adds to tongue weight, weight behind the axles reduces it. reducing the tongue weight makes the trailer less stable and if there isn't enough it can be unsafe. .....usually 12 - 15% of the trailers' gvw needs to be on the tongue.
Dave
__________________
2022 Outdoors RV 25RDS, 2022 F350 dually, 6.7PSD, 10 spd, 3.55's
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01-04-2021, 09:26 PM
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#111
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Junior Member
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandpa5x
You should never tow more than 85% of tow rating, plus you need to know the payload rating of your truck. Some trucks have a towing capacity of a certain number but have so much optional equipment the truck can barely carry passengers. The payload rating is on a sticker on the the drivers door frame. Yours and the safety of everyone around you is on the line.
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This is the decades old truth of hauling folks, I've driven 60-80k# in Freightshakers with underpowered Mercedes motor, 120k+# in KW's with better Cummins, and Pete's with the big cats. Hands down, the square front truck with huge engine made doing it for a living as enjoyable as it can be. Will the lighter truck with little engine pull the load? Yes, but using over 85% of it will be slow, terrifying in mountains, and lead to more frequent servicing.
I can say though, I just took home a 26' 5300# tt with my '17 QX80 4x4 we bought for kid hauling... 40 miles with the equalizer 4 point hitch and a total of 3 slight hills, the whole rig felt solid (and slow) as a train. Got passed by a semi in a city highway concrete barrier work zone (with no tow mirrors yet lol) and no shake at all, the vehicle advertises it has some sort of built in sway control and i believe it after that. But it is underpowered unfortunately, and probably horrible for the drivetrain long term.
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01-05-2021, 07:51 AM
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#112
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2017
Posts: 525
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AV8, My 2020 F150 Supercrew has a 6800# GVWR package listed on the window sticker and a 2039 payload listed on the yellow door sticker.
So 6800-2039=4761.
Im guessing my truck weighed 4761 OTD from the factory.
Im going to weigh it and see what the actual weight is. Other than floor mats and a x-mas tree air freshner, I have not added any weight.
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