Community Forums

Cumminsfan · 01-06-2022, 04:26 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE0fh-cGSec&t=1s

green_plaid · 01-06-2022, 07:42 PM

Actually just bought a 2022 Apex Nano 208BHS and one of the things that stood out to me was how solid the floor felt. I wonder if in earlier models they didn't have supports in the middle of the laminated floor structure. Also hearing more issues on the earlier Rockwood's than the Apex's.
Either way this made me curious so I sent an email to Coachmen about this because in their brochure it shows block foam insulation with supports spaced across the entire floor structure. I also watched that video hours of when it came out. I am certain it was soft but once they cut the strips in the floor it certainly made it look way more dramatic. Also...it sounds like they were full timing for a little while in it.

mike91eagle · 01-07-2022, 04:33 AM

Isn't that great, "we want you to pay big bucks and buy our product but you can't use it too much."

dizcom · 01-07-2022, 04:58 AM

I like most of his videos, but he's a bit over the top with this one. I'm surprised the owner agreed to have the floor repaired this way. There's about a hundred things I would have tried before ripping the floor out (strapping not being one of them). Just replacing the floor isn't going to do anything except kick the can down the road at great expense. The floor needs support. The laminate and foam isn't designed to support any weight any more than it is in any other rig. If they just replace the floor, this thing is just going to sag again. This video is less a warning about ultralight floors than it is a warning to get a second opinion on repairs. Ultralights are inexpensive and light on purpose. There's nothing wrong with them, but I wouldn't expect it to hold up to full time use for long.

Cumminsfan · 01-07-2022, 08:19 AM

Regardless of the repair method, the fact that Coachman didn't provide sufficient floor support is IMO what he's trying to point out. I've read about this issue with foam sandwiched floors on other forums too. And many aren't full timers. 2 more supports and this video wouldn't need to be shown.

green_plaid · 01-07-2022, 08:57 AM

I did get a reply back from Coachmen and the rep did say that they have supports to prevent this from happening. Like I said...my floor feels super solid and has no deflection. But I also only weigh 185 lbs. The earlier models must have not been built the same. I'll admit I was hesitant at first to get anything with a laminated floor but I also never really liked the idea of fiberglass insulation that was only protected by the Darco membrane either. Seemed like I was always patching up holes.

I think what I'll probably do next camping season is drop the belly cover and add additional supports underneath if I feel the support is insufficient. That way I can atleast get ahead of any problems.

Dave Pelletier · 01-07-2022, 10:30 AM

common on some models using a laminated floor without a proper thickness plywood top; I was looking at an older Rockwood until I found out about this; the newer ones have a proper plywood top IIRC. https://www.forestriverforums.com/fo...on-147996.html

I ended up going with an Outdoors RV which has a strong plywood floor; the only weakness is that the fiberglass insulation and membrane construction is susceptible to water damage in the event of a leak. I replaced my floor insulation with closed cell spray foam and I think I have the best of all worlds now...

Dave

TravelSolo · 01-07-2022, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dizcom

I like most of his videos, but he's a bit over the top with this one. I'm surprised the owner agreed to have the floor repaired this way. There's about a hundred things I would have tried before ripping the floor out (strapping not being one of them). Just replacing the floor isn't going to do anything except kick the can down the road at great expense. The floor needs support. The laminate and foam isn't designed to support any weight any more than it is in any other rig. If they just replace the floor, this thing is just going to sag again. This video is less a warning about ultralight floors than it is a warning to get a second opinion on repairs. Ultralights are inexpensive and light on purpose. There's nothing wrong with them, but I wouldn't expect it to hold up to full time use for long.

They aren't just replacing the floor here. The slots they cut out are for bracing that are going to ride across the top of the frame rails and then they'll put new 1/4" over the top to get back to the original thickness. So it's reinforcing the existing floor from inside rather than from underneath.

bneukam · 01-07-2022, 12:14 PM

This is just cheap construction. Laminated floors done right are rock solid, and will last a long time with heavy use. Looks like they used cheap glue, as foam board, and plywood should never separate like that. Once that happens support is compromised.

Laminated floor should have integrated framing that not only runs side to side, but also forward, and aft that is fastened to every cross member.

Thicker plywood floors, that aren’t properly adhere to the wood framing can also start coming apart after little use. If they aren’t properly glued down, screws will start working there way back out, from traveling down the road. They are also more prone to rot from water leaks due to the batten insulation.

Manufacturers can build lighter weight units that are of high quality, but it cost money that most buyers aren’t willing to spend.

I have a really hard time with manufacturers putting in all the work, and cost to build these things, then just completely drop the ball in crucial areas.

Yosemite77 · 01-26-2022, 01:06 PM

Here’s the video which show how the repair was done.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxJdhh4sWr4&t=289s

I fail to understand how anyone could defend Coachmen on this. Incredibly poor design and engineering. Perhaps the weight of the buyers needs to be Ultra-Lite as well?

Dave Pelletier · 01-26-2022, 01:29 PM

I just wouldn't buy a trailer with a luan topped laminated floor period. My ORV has 5/8 plywood tongue and groove screwed and glued to the stringers and it's very strong. ....I think alot of this is the whole problem with the lightweight market where they are trying to pack in all the stuff the consumer wants in a package that can be towed by a light duty tow vehicle.....compromises have to be made and most people will give up a HD structure for an extra 2' in trailer length....

Dave

bneukam · 01-26-2022, 10:22 PM

To put all laminated floors into the same category of quality is just completely false.

How many rotted plywood floors have we all seen, due to the batten insulation, and it’s ability to absorb moisture. We can post photos of poorly constructed plywood floors as well.

Had a laminated floor in a Winnebago Class C, and drove that thing for 15 years, and 95k miles, in very harsh conditions, and the floor was always rock solid.

This is just cheap construction, and nothing else.

green_plaid · 01-27-2022, 02:39 AM

Rockwood/Flagstaff suffered from the same problem not all that long ago. Since then though, not entirely sure when, the Apex floor was updated to included additional structural members to prevent this from happening. Also not to forget, everyone's beloved manufacturer Grand Design has a laminated floor on their entry level models.

I personally believe laminated, when done right, is far superior to fiberglass under plywood. Fiberglass is like a sponge, absorbing any hint of moisture.

Wowens79 · 01-27-2022, 06:31 AM

I've got a 2016 Forest River TT with the laminate floor, and it is horrible. It has so many soft spots. There is an area between the sink and the fridge that is probably close to 3ft between supports. I'm a big guy about 275, but when I bought this thing I never thought about a floor made from foam.

I've watch videos on repairing them, and really can't get excited about doing it myself, and hate to dump the money into it to have someone fix it.

I've learned where the crossmembers are, and try to always step on them. I'll probably just keep doing this for another year, and trade it in for a 5th wheel with wood floors