Fluorescent light replacement LEDs

[docj]

I have a dead fluorescent fixture that needs to be replaced. I am aware of two type of LEDs designed for retrofitting into existing fluorescent fixtures. They are:

http://www.prudentrver.com/ledfleds.html

and

Revolution Fluorescent LED Replacement Bulbs

Does anyone have any experience with either of these products? I'd love to get some feedback before I spend the money.

[ottffss]

A friend's RV has the second option. They bought tubes for one fixture thinking they would by junk. Put them in - seems to take some modification to remove the ballast if I recall - and by the end of the day ordered (at great expense) bulbs for every (now formerly) florescent fixture in the RV.

When I saw them there is no question, they are brighter than original, warm colored, don't flicker, and totally cool (temp and looks). If I had fluorescent fixtures I'd have done it too!

You might do the same, buy for one and try it out. They aren't cheap! YMMV

[Ken Gluckman]

I recently replaced the fluorescent bulbs in my fixtures when the ballast failed with these from eBay:

RV LIGHT BULB T5 12" fluorescent tube replacement LED | eBay

They work well and were easy to install.

[frEEk]

Be careful not to fall for the LED hype. Though I am a big fan of them for many applications (and have been following the technology for 15+ years) they are in many/most cases NOT as efficient as fluorescent. You can look up specific bulbs yourself to calculate their efficiency (assuming you can find the output in lumens which isn't always mentioned) but here is a general idea: Luminous efficacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Given the high cost, it is in many cases not worth it, especially since fluorescent longevity is pretty good compared to incandescent or halogen. Only real downside is disposal. Oh, and the mentioned flicker, which is said to be all but gone when using electronic ballasts. Having said all that, there are plenty of reasons to prefer LEDs, so if it is worth the additional cost, have at 'er! Just don't buy them for savings.

[Happycarz]

This (Ming's Mark) looks like the same light for less money.

Ming's Mark

[SCVJeff]

Why not just replace the ballast instead of the entire fixture? Here is about every ballast made. See this page:
12 Volt DC Ballasts for Fluorescent Lights

[docj]

Originally Posted by frEEk

Be careful not to fall for the LED hype. Though I am a big fan of them for many applications (and have been following the technology for 15+ years) they are in many/most cases NOT as efficient as fluorescent. You can look up specific bulbs yourself to calculate their efficiency (assuming you can find the output in lumens which isn't always mentioned) but here is a general idea: Luminous efficacy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Given the high cost, it is in many cases not worth it, especially since fluorescent longevity is pretty good compared to incandescent or halogen. Only real downside is disposal. Oh, and the mentioned flicker, which is said to be all but gone when using electronic ballasts. Having said all that, there are plenty of reasons to prefer LEDs, so if it is worth the additional cost, have at 'er! Just don't buy them for savings.

Most comparisons of fluorescents with LEDs exclude the energy losses in the ballast which can be considerable unless the ballast is one of the newer electronic types. Furthermore, the "spiral" compact fluorescent bulbs are not, on the average, as energy efficient as "linear" (straight tube) types.

Also, LEDs permit lighting fixtures to be resized since they no longer have to accommodate a particular bulb. We just installed under cabinet lighting that looks a lot like the fluorescent fixtures many of us have used under cabinets for years, except that these are half the thickness and a small fraction of the weight. I hung them with heavy duty Velcro whereas I would have had to have screwed them in if they were fluorescent. In addition, because each fixture consumes only 5-7 watts a virtually infinite number of them could be safely strung together so they can be turned on with one switch.

This ability to "reshape" lighting is very evident in newer cars with LED headlights and/or taillights and it is inevitable that household fixtures will start to take on new shapes as major lighting fixture manufacturers take advantage of the design flexibility LEDs provide. The under cabinet lights I installed were made by Kitchler, a major manufacturer, the first LED lights I have bought that were produced by a major company. IMHO, this ability to redefine the shape of lighting will prove, in the long run, to be as big or bigger factor in the penetration of LEDs into the market than is energy efficiency.

[docj]

Originally Posted by Happycarz

This (Ming's Mark) looks like the same light for less money.

Ming's Mark

I bought these from RVLEDBulbs.com - RV LED Bulbs, RV LED Lights and Light Accessories because they sell both Ming and Revolution and said they have seen no differences in failure rate, performance, etc. They are on their way to me and I'll post my impressions when I receive and install them.

I decided to buy two Ming bulbs at 300 lumens each for my 12" fixture because the 400 lumen Revolution or Ming bulbs were more light output than a single fluorescent bulb but less than two. I decided the fixture would look better with two bulbs and two of the smaller Mings was only slightly more than the cost of one Revolution.

[docj]

Originally Posted by SCVJeff

Why not just replace the ballast instead of the entire fixture? Here is about every ballast made. See this page:
12 Volt DC Ballasts for Fluorescent Lights

IMHO ~$25 plus shipping for a ballast plus the cost of new bulbs (the old ballast destroyed the old ones) didn't make any sense in a 11-year old fixture with a light diffuser that has become brittle with age. With shipping charges the LED replacement was ~$50 which is a lot less than the cost of a new fixture. Since mine is a recessed light there weren't many replacement options that would look attractive.

[John Hilley]

Here is a source of replacement lens - diffusers for fluorescent lights

Solar seller replacement lens - diffusers

[frEEk]

docj, couldn't agree with you more re the design flexibility LEDs afford. It is one of the main reasons I've been a fan of the technology for so long (I damn near danced a jig first time i heard of a 1W luxeon star). that and their longevity, altho unfortunately high power applications don't have nearly the same longevity as low power units (especially since LEDs fade over time). but there are certainly applications where fail-proof operation is important, or it is really hard/expensive to replace a bulb, and for those cases LED is a no brainer, even if they don't have better efficiency and are high priced. My neighbour is a lighting manufacturer (mostly fixtures, only started on LEDs) and the only application they have found a viable market yet is these same LED fluorescent replacement bulbs, specifically for use in warehouses. with the high ceilings and the need to pay someone certified to change the bulbs, and the impact on warehouse traffic, they are worth the premium cost to buyers (scared to think of the bill to replace a 50,000 square foot warehouse worth of bulbs).

good point on losses in the transformer. that may break them even in many cases. and speaking of the compact units, I saw a new LED (based on the 10W cree i think) outdoor floodlight recently at a electrical wholesaler. A 2 bulb unit was 1200lumens or so and $220 if I remember correctly. Right next to it was a compact fluorescent outdoor floodlight with a 42W bulb (not spiral, a 3 on-axis loop design) for like $50. It put out 3100 lumens. I do remember being rather disappointed at seeing that. I had wanted to see LED do much better.

[docj]

I just installed these Ming Natural White 12" 300L RV LED Tube for Fluorescent Lights fluorescent replacement bulbs in one of my 12" recessed Thinlite fixtures that had totally died. The retailer sells both the Ming and Revolution brands and the person I spoke with said so far he can find no particular differences except that the Mings sell for less.

Both Ming and Revolution sell 400 lumen replacements for the 12" fluorescent bulb, but a single one of those is less light than the original fluorescents and two would be a lot more lot (and more $$). I went with two 300 lumen Ming bulbs at $24 each and they are perfect (I had also thought that having two light sources in the fixture would also look better than a single, off-center one). The color temperature is virtually a normal "cool white" and the provide just about the same light output as we had previously.

One thing that really makes these fluorescent replacements great is that the LED tubes sit in the original light bulb holders but don't use them for electrical connection (there are wires directly attached to the LED tubes). That was perfect for me since the tube holders in my fixture no longer made good contact with the bulbs and often had to be jiggled after we arrived at our destination. The failed ballast in the fixture had over-heated them and caused additional damage. Therefore, I wasn't sure they would work as anything more than "tube holders" anyway.

Installation was a snap; just connect the wires from the LED tube to the two 12V wires going to the fixture.

The bottom line was a ~$56 (including shipping) investment to replace a recessed Thinlite the cheapest price for which I can find is $66. A new ballast alone was ~$30 including shipping and would have required 2 new tubes for another couple of bucks. Since it was a recessed fixture there were fewer replacement options. The net result for me is a "like new" fixture that consumes 6.8W instead of 16W.

[vito.a]

Thanks for all the links. I didn't even know these existed.

I bought a case of bulbs and several ballasts that has gotten me by for the last ten years. I think I will try a pair of LED bulbs next time.