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Old 04-13-2022, 02:52 PM   #1
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Powerline 1200 Extenders again!!!

OK, I decided to try and tackle this again. My previous thread was too old to post to. I had tired to set up 2 Powerline extenders before without success. This was using a Mobley as a hotspot with an ASUS1900 router providing internet to the extender. I could could not get this to work.



One thing that changed is that I purchased a Nighthawk M1100 hotspot and eliminated the need for the ASUS1900 router in the house.

I got both the Powerline extenders to communicate in the house, I used my laptop as a test. It works, I get internet connection via the ethernet cables. So far so good.
When I take it to the garage I can't get the extenders to latch together.



My question is does it matter if the circuits come off of different subpanels. The wiring in my house is as follows.
The power comes through a 400 amp meter and is split through two different safety switches. One circuit goes to a service panel that provide power to the first and second floor, this is where I have my base extender hooked up to the hotspot.

The other circuit goes to a service panel in the basement which also provides power to the garage but goes through multiple breakers before any outlets are powered.



The circuits do have the common ground and neutral but the L1 & L2 are routed through the safety switches, 200 amp breakers on each panel, and the 60 & 50 amp breakers before it gets to the garage.
Would this make a difference as to how the Powerline extenders work????
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Old 04-13-2022, 03:00 PM   #2
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Power line extenders

I tried these kind of products many years ago, and I recall the manuals stating that they needed to be on the same leg of the power distribution system to function properly. The old products were known for inserting a lot of rf interference into the signal. I don't recall now that I ever got them to work reliably, your mileage may vary with newer products though.

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Old 04-13-2022, 03:19 PM   #3
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Used PowerLine several years ago. Needed to be other same power leg for connectivity. I used from detached garage with sub panel to house with main panel. Any active devices inline will likely block them (such as surge protectors).
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Old 04-14-2022, 09:42 AM   #4
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I did some testing today.

The hotspot is located in the familyroom first floor center of house, the outlet gets power from the service panel in the garage. Speed test connected to the hotspot directly was ~45mb down ~1 mb up,



I tested several outlets downstairs outlets, which gets it power from the downstairs service panel. I was able to get the Powerline to connect to the hotspot but speeds were ~15mb down ~1mb up.



Took it to the garage and hooked to the first outlet coming off the subpanel there and it connected but I could not get an internet connection.


So the system is working but I believe there are just too many connections in between the hotspot outlet and the garage. I guess if I tried to move the hotspot down stairs it might improve the powerline connections but the hotspot performance would suffer substantially.



So I guess it's time to look at getting the fiberoptic connected from the local coop and then I can move the hotspot out to the garage. Going to have to do this sooner or later anyway since if me or my wife goes on a trip we'll need the hotspot anyway. Last year I subscribed to Cricket but it is more expensive then going the fiberoptic route and dedicating the hotspot to the coach/garage.
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Old 04-14-2022, 10:46 AM   #5
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You are trying to get connected to it in the detached garage, right? How far is the garage?

Why not a wireless wifi link? Extenders, multipoint systems, even point to point bridges for longer distances.
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Old 04-14-2022, 10:56 AM   #6
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Had the same problem getting signal out to my garage.

Purchased several extenders without much improvement so I finally bit the dust and ran a hardwire connection to the garage.
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Old 04-14-2022, 11:06 AM   #7
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Jim-

I tried to send you a private message about the extenders and "the system" said your PM mailbox was full. Could it be?
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Old 04-14-2022, 11:13 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1 View Post
Jim-

I tried to send you a private message about the extenders and "the system" said your PM mailbox was full. Could it be?

Yes, the inbox was full and just cleared out 1/2 of the older messages.
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Old 04-14-2022, 11:26 AM   #9
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Jim-

PM sent.
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Old 04-16-2022, 01:33 PM   #10
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Well, there is probably more then one way to skin a cat, as the saying goes!


Did another test today with the extenders. I plugged the Hotspot into a basement outlet and set it next to a window, probably not the strongest signal for the hotspot but it did pick up the tower.
This outlet was fed by the same subpanel in the basement that feeds the garage. This eliminated a number of breakers/connections.
I tried to connect the extenders from the upstairs kitchen in the house, it did not connect so just those connections are enough to prevent the extenders from connecting.

I then tried the extender out in the garage at an outlet mounted right off the subpanel and it did connect so with a laptop plugged into the extender I did a speed test, got about 40mbs up and 1.5mbs down, not bad. Then tested an outlet in my workshop and it connected by the up speed was ~25mbs. Then tried a connection plugged into an outlet in the coach, NO GO, would not connect.

I then plugged in a router and did some tests, had ~35 mbs near the router and about 27mbs in the motor home. Not bad, good enough to surf the web and maybe for the ROKU device, didn't try that. One thing that I also found is that I have an LED strip light next to the subpanel in the garage and if I turned this on the signal degraded some.



In order to get the extenders to work and have my hotspot centrally located in the house I'll have to install an outlet in the family room powered off the subpanel in the basement. I anticipated something like this and ran a 2" conduit in the ceiling of the basement so pulling a wire won't be too bad, I have the wire and outlet and breaker so really no cost, just my time and I have nothing better to do.



So these extenders do work from building to building but you need to limit the number of breakers from point to point. Something to consider if you are planning something like this but considering the cost of the extenders it's a pretty good option to get internet connectivity in a remote building.
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Old 04-18-2022, 02:08 PM   #11
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If you want full coverage, you need additional extenders. The extender network only communicates point to point when that is the only connection available. On diverse home electrical grids, you need a cluster of extenders operating as part of the same network. They will "mesh" with each other and designate intermediate extenders as relays between extenders that can't see each other directly. They also designate relays when the connection speed directly between 2 units is lower than the relay speed possible.


Additionally, you want to purchase the absolute highest speed extenders available- your effective throughput is reduced with attenuation and the 2000Mbps models will maintain a more stable level of connection even with very difficult conditions. You'll probably never see 2000mbps even in combined network traffic, though, as even putting them on the same circuit has too much line interference.



The current generation extenders using Homeplug Gen 2 communications typically relies on the ground path paired with the hot to communicate. Homeplug Gen 1 devices (the original Powerline adapters that were about 100mbps) used the neutral to pass data. Technically in most houses these are bonded together at the breaker panel, so if the hot path is not available (like being on the other split phase) the communications will adopt a much slower connection through the neutral and ground that interfere with each other's bandwidth. What's important about this is that with multiple extenders, they don't necessarily have to share a bottlenecked connection to communicate, rather they path data via the least congested route.



You can further improve your powerline network performance by connecting adapters to both phases directly, setting up each phase as an independent network. Just connect both back to the network switch or router.



You might also consider MoCa networking, using coax instead of power to move data. The benefit of MoCa is much less interference and much greater speed, although the initial cost may be a bit higher if you want to get into whole-house distribution.
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Old 05-07-2022, 12:43 PM   #12
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Well, it was a rainy day yesterday so I went ahead and ran a run of 12 awg wire from my basement service panel to a location in the family room where the Nighthawk is located.

Pulling new wire across the basement was easy as I had installed a spare conduit in the floor trusses when I build the house. Found the location I wanted the outlet in the bedroom and roughed in the opening to accept a two gang box and used a long extension bit to drill a hole down into the basement, before I did this I removed the drop ceiling in the basement and confirmed what/how any wiring was there to make sure it was safe to drill.

Drilled the hole and was able to use a snake down into the basement to pull the 12 awg wire up. Did the connection and installed the two receptacles.

The pulled the wire into the service panel and installed the 20 amp breaker.

Installed the breaker right next to the 50 amp breaker feeding the garage figuring the closer the better when it comes to use the extender.

This AM I moved the Nighthawk and plugged in the base extender into the new outlet. Took the other one to the garage and plugged it in to the outlet right at the panel into the garage.
Checked the Wifi connection with my tablet, good signal.
Tried the Roku TV and was able to stream a movie to check. Worked great.

So now I have the man cave all set up with OTA TV antenna and Wifi for streaming. All I have to now it plug in the fridge, make some ice, and stock the liqueur cabinet (I actually have a 1/2 bottle of Dewar from my last trip still in the coach) and I'll be set.



So the extender does work, actually better then I expected. This was a project I first considered last year but finally got the time to get it done.
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