Starlink internet

[Isaac-1]

To add to this point, Elon Musk is a highly technical hands on person, while he may not do the grunt work engineering, he pushes the design philosophy, his mantra is the best part is no part, meaning simplify the design whenever you can. He also strongly believe in the iterative design process, just start building, when it fails, redesign, and do it again, over and over until you get it right, this is as opposed to spending years designing things to try to be right the first time.


By contrast Steve Jobs was a visionary, when the iMac first came out one of his visionary demands was that it have no cooling fan, the engineers said it needed a fan, Jobs said NO, as a result the engineers had to get very creative with larger heat sinks, and designing a case that allowed for natural convective air currents, etc. This resulted in a marginal design for heat dissipation, requiring a massively increased level of design work to minimize the heat generator, and maximize the convective air currents, but Jobs got his iMac with no fan. Anyone else would have compromised and said, ok you can put a fan in there if you spend the extra $5 and use an ultra quiet one.

[gsgriffin]

Originally Posted by Zymurgest

As an ex engineering physicist, I was commenting more about the statement about gravity than the other one about latency issues. The difference between LEO and HEO is only about 2 light seconds, so the latency from star-link would theoretically be less than 100 ms, whereas geostationary satellites are around 2-4 THOUSAND ms, which is a huge difference. But the gravity well of earth affects many things beyond the orbit of the moon. Weightless doesn't mean massless or even zero gravity; its just that it's not the usual and customary way of thinking about gravity as we experience it here on earth. Safe and happy travels!

All good! While starlink is claiming laser between satellites, I do not believe that is possible with the ground stations since we are taking about phased array or hybrid phased array antenna...can't do that with light, right?

So we are not talking about latency on light speed. The HEO is what is currently causing the greatest challenge in sat Internet. I do believe this is what I read as a primary reason for them focusing on LEO.

[gsgriffin]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

To add to this point, Elon Musk is a highly technical hands on person, while he may not do the grunt work engineering, he pushes the design philosophy, his mantra is the best part is no part, meaning simplify the design whenever you can. He also strongly believe in the iterative design process, just start building, when it fails, redesign, and do it again, over and over until you get it right, this is as opposed to spending years designing things to try to be right the first time.


By contrast Steve Jobs was a visionary, when the iMac first came out one of his visionary demands was that it have no cooling fan, the engineers said it needed a fan, Jobs said NO, as a result the engineers had to get very creative with larger heat sinks, and designing a case that allowed for natural convective air currents, etc. This resulted in a marginal design for heat dissipation, requiring a massively increased level of design work to minimize the heat generator, and maximize the convective air currents, but Jobs got his iMac with no fan. Anyone else would have compromised and said, ok you can put a fan in there if you spend the extra $5 and use an ultra quiet one.

I think your analogy is well put but might tick off all the Apple Fan-Boys....

[gsgriffin]

Originally Posted by MSHappyCampers

Joel, I agree with your assessment, but on the other hand, who would have ever dreamed that he could design a rocket that could be used and then returned to land upright, ready to be used again! That just blows my mind!

And they are now able to glide the fairings back down and catch them in a net at sea above a ship. This is fun to watch!

While Musk may not have designed everything, I've seen interviews with those leading in the different companies that say when Musk arrives for a visit and tours the work, he able to get down to the nitty-gritty of most everything they are doing and speak intelligently about it. I do also believe that he is the one that pushes everyone to think outside the box.

The real difference in success here is that he owns the rocket company and has a way of getting the satellites up far more cheaply than anyone every who tried before. Every other company that has tried this failed in the past. Musk is well aware of that and trying to build a plan that will make them the first to succeed.

Short-sellers have been betting against Tesla from the start, and now look at them!! Wish I had invested in them a few years back. I wouldn't bet against him on SpaceX or StarLink. I think both are destined for success.

[gsgriffin]

Originally Posted by bandcworkhorse

Thousands of satellites...moving at high speed...from just one company. We may hear a lot more "Houston, we have a problem" transmissions from future astronauts. I'm certainly no expert, but from what I've read there is already enough stuff floating around out there, at all altitudes, that launching and finding a parking space without getting into a mid-air (mid-space?) is a challenge. Anybody from NASA or SpaceCom have a comment?

I'm not one that tries to chime in on every thread everywhere as an expert on everything. I don't work for either, but I read everything about StarLink, SpaceX and Tesla daily. Not an expert, I've read A LOT ever since the start of all of these companies.

One thing to note about these satellites is that they are powered by innovative Ion thrusters and each satellite has its own obstacle avoidance system on board. In theory (which has yet to be proven), these satellites will be able to move around and avoid objects they might otherwise hit.

[docj]

Originally Posted by gsgriffin

All good! While starlink is claiming laser between satellites, I do not believe that is possible with the ground stations since we are taking about phased array or hybrid phased array antenna...can't do that with light, right?

It's not so much that phased arrays couldn't be used at light frequencies but, rather, that light frequencies don't penetrate clouds. Whatever is used to communicate between satellites and ground stations has to, of course, be designed for all-weather operation.

[Isaac-1]

Ok, a few points of clarification here:


1, radio waves travel at the speed of light, so latency is going to be the same for radio, microwave, or laser based communication, though the speed of light does depend on the media it is traveling in, ie light travels faster in a vacuum than in a glass fiber.


2, Satellite to satellite laser communication is still a work in progress and this feature is not on the first generation satellites that SpaceX is currently launching


3, What most people don't get is just how much further away geostationary satellites are, Starlink is currently launching satellites into a 340 mile high orbit, where current Viasat, Hughesnet, Directv satellites are in a 22,300 mile high orbit. Making for a substantially lower signal lag time due to speed of light latency. The round trip light time to about 1/4 of a second, that is up and back down, for a web request that means a minimum of 1/2 second for the return signal to come back to you, 1/4 second for your signal to get there then another 1/4 of a second to get back, in reallity it will be more as it has to go out over the internet to some server and return. By comparison the round trip light time to Starlink satellites is less than 1/20th of this, though it will vary depending on geometry of signal path.

[stuccosteve]

Originally Posted by Isaac-1

Ok, By comparison the round trip light time to Starlink satellites is less than 1/20th of this, though it will vary depending on geometry of signal path.

Just like the speed of Starlink the future is coming fast, just in time to embrace the remote versatility of RV life. A new form of a distanced lifestyle that is sustainable by virtue of being closer electronically.

[photraveller]

Originally Posted by gsgriffin

...
Short-sellers have been betting against Tesla from the start, and now look at them!! Wish I had invested in them a few years back. I wouldn't bet against him on SpaceX or StarLink. I think both are destined for success.

I think the real reason short sellers bet against Tesla is because it's market value is way too high. There is no way using rational thinking, that Tesla is worth more than all other car manufacturers on any given day. So of course there will be people betting on the bubble to burst.

That said, I doubt most of those short sellers are actually expecting them to fail. They are just betting that there are too many fan boys buying stock.

For the record, I don't short sell, nor would I bet on them to fail.

Steve

[Johnynorthla]

I would’ve loved to see his company named Skynet!

“hasta la vista,,,,,, baby”!

[gsgriffin]

Originally Posted by photraveller

I think the real reason short sellers bet against Tesla is because it's market value is way too high. There is no way using rational thinking, that Tesla is worth more than all other car manufacturers on any given day. So of course there will be people betting on the bubble to burst.

That said, I doubt most of those short sellers are actually expecting them to fail. They are just betting that there are too many fan boys buying stock.

For the record, I don't short sell, nor would I bet on them to fail.

Steve

There is a bubble now, but the short-sellers on Tesla are actually a little famous. They have been betting against Tesla since the start years ago...even well before the current bubble. They have betted that Tesla would fail at every step of the development and growth and even double down when he builds a new factory. Now Tesla is building factories and producing in China, Germany and soon more in Texas. My point is that some have been betting that "he can't do that." But, he keep proving that he can. I believe it will be the same with StarLink. Some may say "this won't work," and that is possible, but I have a suspicion that this will work.

If you want he watch his CEO of SpaceX give a TED talk, she is really pretty amazing and make a bold statement about passenger travel industry that they plan to be in within 10 years.....30 minutes flight from LA to Hong Kong! It was only 10 years ago that people would have said you're nuts to try to launch and land a rocket.

[dkingman]

Originally Posted by rebelsun

$40/month internet service?
I pay double that amount with Spectrum here in Florida.

I pay $168/month with a current satellite provider (Viasat). That includes a speed throttle that changes all streaming media to SD quality. Amazon, Netflix and Hulu seem to work OK in Viasat’s “SD” environment but HBONow doesn’t play well and constantly buffers.

So, needless to say, I am hopeful for the promise of Starlink.

[MRUSA14]

Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy

Musk didn't design it, he ordered it to be designed. Like Edison, Musk receives credit for work he did not personally do.

For fun, look up how Edison treated Nicola Tesla - that ultimately pushed Tesla to George Westinghouse, who also screwed Mr. Tesla although it took longer.

I suspect this may be the link between Musk, the "visionary" using the Tesla name - he'll have others do the real work while he packs another bowl of "California's Finest" into the bong.

That is an absurd criticism. Do you thing Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Jeff Bezos did all the work themselves? Like Musk, their genius was imagining things that never were and then successfully getting them to market. They all left the naysayers in the dust.

[wfalch]

Great people surround themselves with other great people