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Old 11-07-2024, 11:47 PM   #29
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A 6/8 cu ft compressor fridge uses about 100A of battery power a day. You'll need 1000aH battery to last 10 days. A propane lasts about 30-40 days on a regulation tank for say a 24' rig. A 100aH battery will only power your fridge for one day and nothing else you need electricity for. I just pulled out my "no cold", threw it in the trash and replaced the 6 cf with an 8 cf rebuilt from J&J. Delighted I did so. You can have the 12v electric one. I use power for my electronics and Internet appliances instead of wasting on refrigeration. If I need hard ice cream, I'll stop and buy some. People likely could do with a little less hard ice cream if the truth was known.
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Old 11-08-2024, 07:23 AM   #30
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I looked into those JC conversion systems, did a lot of research on them , I even talked to JC numerous times, great people! I guess if you’re concerned about the fitment of a new fridge or want to keep the look you have, it’s worth it. The extra interior space I gained going to 12V was what sold me on the swap. It’s like having a small full size fridge now! (With hard ice cream!)
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Old 11-08-2024, 07:27 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Don Juane View Post
A 6/8 cu ft compressor fridge uses about 100A of battery power a day. You'll need 1000aH battery to last 10 days. A propane lasts about 30-40 days on a regulation tank for say a 24' rig. A 100aH battery will only power your fridge for one day and nothing else you need electricity for. I just pulled out my "no cold", threw it in the trash and replaced the 6 cf with an 8 cf rebuilt from J&J. Delighted I did so. You can have the 12v electric one. I use power for my electronics and Internet appliances instead of wasting on refrigeration. If I need hard ice cream, I'll stop and buy some. People likely could do with a little less hard ice cream if the truth was known.
Who’s J&J? Never heard of them? Is this still an absobtion unit?
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Old 11-08-2024, 07:56 AM   #32
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Same sysstem

40 ft Allegro Bus. My no cold was about done so I replaced the cooling unit with JC 12v system at their factory in northern IN. Great folks.
Replaced the 4x 6v LA batts with one 300 amp/hr Li. 2-3 times the useful power from a 300 amp batt as the old 440 amp LA. I know the arithmetic seems backwards but that is how good the Li batts are.
Replaced the 2000 w modified sine wave inverter/100 amp charger with a newer 2500 w pure sine wave/125 amp charger with Li settings.
Added 50 amp DC-DC charger for the engine alt to charge thru. Not absolutely necessary but I did not want the alt running at it's max capacity for a couple hours.
If you will be exposed to cold weather, the Li batts need to be protected. I could pay $300 more for the built in freeze protected batts or $9.95 for 10 foot of pipe freeze tape wrapped around the batt in the newly sealed and insulated batt compartment. Also added an outlet therein that is not powered by the inverter.
Last addition was a new Victron batt monitor. Great unit.
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Old 11-08-2024, 02:09 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by medarwin View Post
Hello to all,
I'm about to pull the trigger on a 12 volt compressor refrigerator to get rid of the 1201 no cold I currently have. I'm not really interested in discussing the pros and cons of 12 volt compressor versus propane electric refrigerators as I've had my share of propane electric problems over the last 35 years and it's time to be done with it regardless of its advantages in certain situations. And I don't want a 120 volt AC refrigerator because of the inherent loss of converting DC power to AC via the inverter, no matter how negligible the loss it's still there. The real purpose here is to get some feedback regarding transitioning from lead acid batteries to possibly lithium. Small capacity, 100 amp hour, lithium batteries are readily available and are now at the same price point or possibly less than some lead acid solutions. Since my flooded lead acid 6 volts are pretty much in the Twilight of their useful life now seems like a good time to make the transition.My plan is to get rid of my four six volt 130 amp hour lead acid batteries, flooded, and install four 100 amp hour lithium batteries in parallel using a bus setup in order to try to get some semblance of balanced charging and discharging over the four batteries. I currently have a Freedom 15 inverter charger which I believe has a 70 amp peak charging rate. I believe that at that rate I should not have any problem charging the four small capacity lithium batteries.
That will give me about 320 amp hours to use safely while stopping at an 80% discharge. Considerably more than me I have available now without going below a 50% discharge rate. Although I dry Camp often normally it would be for one night at a time while en route to a more permanent destination. My long periods of boondocking are generally for a week at a time at various race tracks. Normally, since I live in the southeast it's almost always necessary for me to run the air conditioner at least a couple of hours each day anyway and of course I generally have to top up the batteries once a day anyway just to be safe. So, there's no real need for solar since I'm going to use the Gen set anyway, all I'm really looking for is enough battery capacity to run the fridge for 24 to 48 hours on existing battery power without problems. The unit at the top of my list is a JC refrigeration 2417 which will pretty much fit into the 1201 no cold slot with some minor modifications such as lowering the platform a bit. That unit pulls 4.2 amps when running, and the compressor is surely not going to run every minute of every hour. As an added bonus it has almost 7cf of additional capacity, a big deal since I almost always cook rather than go out. Hopefully someone out there has created a similar setup and wants to share there experiences good and bad.

Ok, let fly with advice and criticisms.

Darwin
Hi, So I can agree that the dual propane/electric refrigerators work good but do take time to cool everything. Mine works great but I need to be really vigilant about not holding the door open while getting something out. I am not sure about the 12v compressor style units and their reliability.
Regarding going to Lithium batteries, its not as simple as installing the batteries, the converter needs to be replaced as well. Lithium batteries charge rate is much different than lead acid batteries and if the converter is not replaced, your batteries will not charge to 100% and could be damaged by your old converter. Before buying one, check to see if your converter is already set up for charging Lithium Ion batteries. If not, it needs to be replaced but the good news is there not really expensive and can be found anywhere incuding Amazon. Good Luck!
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Old 11-08-2024, 02:44 PM   #34
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I run our 58 quart 12 volt cooler off our 2kwh solar generator hooked up to a 200 watt solar panel fixed to our motorhome roof.
It draws about 40 watts and doesn’t run constantly. We took a 2 month trip this summer and it powered our cooler no problem. It only works as a fridge and not a freezer which is no problem for us.
Charging only via solar.
Our old fridge became our pantry.
Not everyone’s cup of tea but it works great for us.
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Old 11-08-2024, 05:19 PM   #35
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My thoughts on your situation .........

My 12V was smaller on the outside than the propane unit and used a front condenser air discharge so I was able to add insulation to the sides and back and top to reduced energy usage significantly in my dry-camping-only situation.

I would install the 12V unit, top off the batteries, and and run the unit for 24 or 48 hours on a hot day (high ambient can greatly increase the fridge energy use). If your batteries were already just okay for your use capacity wise, add this much more battery capacity to your new LFP system. And round up.

Use the above 24 hour usage to estimate the added generator run time. If that's okay, you are good to go. If not, maybe some solar is worthwhile.

200 Ah batteries are pretty much the $/kWh sweet spot these days. If they will fit.
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Old 11-08-2024, 11:54 PM   #36
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DC to DC Charger Protects Alternators

Quote:
Originally Posted by medarwin View Post
Going down the road really all I would have going on is recharging the batteries and running the fridge. The only other thing that would be there would be the radio and other minor 12-volt draws like keeping two phones charged. If I had both headlights on on Bright, all the running lights and the fog lamps that would be an additional load but not a whole lot and I don't drive at night anyway. The only time I would have lights on is if I was driving in the rain. I'm thinking that 160 amps of output from the alternator would be more than sufficient. Am I wrong?
medarwin:
Unfortunately, yes, you are wrong. The problem is that Li batteries have such low internal resistance that when discharged they will present a virtual short to your alternator. As an earlier responder said, they could require 400 amps if unchecked. This would quickly destroy your alternator.
You need a buffer between your alternator and a Li battery bank. The most common solution is a DC to DC charger. A DC to DC charger will limit the current passed to your battery bank and hopefully charge with a Lithium Constant Current / Constant Voltage (CC/CV) charge profile
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Old 11-09-2024, 08:41 AM   #37
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medarwin:
Unfortunately, yes, you are wrong. The problem is that Li batteries have such low internal resistance that when discharged they will present a virtual short to your alternator. As an earlier responder said, they could require 400 amps if unchecked. This would quickly destroy your alternator.
You need a buffer between your alternator and a Li battery bank. The most common solution is a DC to DC charger. A DC to DC charger will limit the current passed to your battery bank and hopefully charge with a Lithium Constant Current / Constant Voltage (CC/CV) charge profile



OK, so a DC to Dc 60A would do the trick? This stuff is new to me, I am an AC guy. I've worked with DC systems forever but am not totally knowledgeable. I am assuming it just installs inline between the batts and Alt? But where/how? Does it install in the engine compartment near the Alt of next to the battery bank? I have found a Renogy for a little over $200. https://www.walmart.com/ip/Renogy-12...9383&sharedid=



And I would also need a new inverter charger? 3000W? So a little over $600, https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...DKIKX0DER&th=1


Then 4 lithium 100AH 12v? That's a bit less than the coast of one 300ah and I have the room for them. I would also think that the mass of the four batteries together would be less likely to overheat/chill with some insulation protection?


Today's project is to plug the dehumidifier into an inverter outlet (4.2 AC amps) and measure the voltage drop over time of the 4 230AH 6v GC LFA batts. It won't be perfect as the compressor in the dehumidifier runs constantly as opposed to the fridge which will run intermittently. And there will also be current lost in conversion as well as any minor AC loss (TVs/microwave standby) but I should get a rough idea of how the FLA batteries would fare.


Thoughts/suggestions?
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Old 11-09-2024, 09:11 AM   #38
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The OP asked for pros and cons of propane versus electric refrigerators. I have a propane refrigerator which uses about 25 amphours per day and is easily provided by a 100 amphour lithium battery and a 100 W solar panel. Electric refrigerators use a lot of amp hours per day and changing from propane to electric requires extensive battery capacity increase, updated converter if lithium selected, updated solar converter if lithium selected, and updated alternator power management if lithium selected. My propane refrigerator works just fine. I would suggest the OP look into a better propane unit or improving the installation of the existing propane unit. all this, of course depends on your usage model too. If you plug-in every night, then I think an electric refrigerator will suit you fine. if you Boondock a lot I think propane lends itself to lower bettery usage. I can run my propane refrigerator for a long time by just using propane and 100 watt solar power attached to 100 amp hour battery. If it’s cloudy for days, I can just start up the generator and charge a lithium battery very quickly, that’s why I chose 100 amp hour lithium.

I did the above mentioned updates for lithium, but they were not necessary to run my propane refrigerator like I do.
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Old 11-09-2024, 09:36 AM   #39
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I must chime in about charging from the alternator. After I installed 200AH Battleborn LiFePo4 batteries, I was warned about high charge voltage from the alternator harming the batteries. I was told to install a dc-dc unit to solve this. I was already deep in the hole with the other adjustments for the conversion, so I installed a Bussman 50 amp autoreset circuit breaker on the charge line from the alternator. I monitored the charging progress with a Powermon monitoring device. I found that when the MH engine is first started (Ford F53) the amps can exceed 80 amps and I could hear the Bussmann clicking off and on, protecting the batteries. But the amps soon settled down in the 30-40amp range for the rest of the engine runtime. My batteries charge while I am on the road and usually are fully charged upon arrival at my destination.
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Old 11-09-2024, 02:25 PM   #40
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I must chime in about charging from the alternator. After I installed 200AH Battleborn LiFePo4 batteries, I was warned about high charge voltage from the alternator harming the batteries. I was told to install a dc-dc unit to solve this. I was already deep in the hole with the other adjustments for the conversion, so I installed a Bussman 50 amp autoreset circuit breaker on the charge line from the alternator. I monitored the charging progress with a Powermon monitoring device. I found that when the MH engine is first started (Ford F53) the amps can exceed 80 amps and I could hear the Bussmann clicking off and on, protecting the batteries. But the amps soon settled down in the 30-40amp range for the rest of the engine runtime. My batteries charge while I am on the road and usually are fully charged upon arrival at my destination.

What inverter charger are you using? Where did you install the circuit breaker? Also, I am ignorant of where the alternator charge wire(s) connect to the batteries. Is it at the relays in the front or at the batteries by the tray. My unit is an 02 Winnie Journey 36DL.
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Old 11-10-2024, 01:50 PM   #41
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Conversion cheaper
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Old 11-10-2024, 02:53 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thenovaks View Post
I must chime in about charging from the alternator. After I installed 200AH Battleborn LiFePo4 batteries, I was warned about high charge voltage from the alternator harming the batteries. I was told to install a dc-dc unit to solve this. I was already deep in the hole with the other adjustments for the conversion, so I installed a Bussman 50 amp autoreset circuit breaker on the charge line from the alternator. I monitored the charging progress with a Powermon monitoring device. I found that when the MH engine is first started (Ford F53) the amps can exceed 80 amps and I could hear the Bussmann clicking off and on, protecting the batteries. But the amps soon settled down in the 30-40amp range for the rest of the engine runtime. My batteries charge while I am on the road and usually are fully charged upon arrival at my destination.
Good trick! But do keep in mind that circuit breakers are not designed for repetitive tripping. Enough overcurrent and current break cycles and the breaker could fail. Bussman is good equipment, but still has a limited life under this kind of duty. If it happens to fail via welded contacts (overheated contacts that melt together) you could be without protection. This is not a common failure mode, but would be problematic if it did occur.

I can't think of any way to test the auto reset circuit breaker for aging. Hopefully it will fail in a mode wherein it trips prematurely making you aware that it needs to be replaced..
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