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View Poll Results: Quality of Heat Absorption Fridge Boiler Curve
Did this explain why an absorption fridge boiler can overheat? 3 75.00%
Did this explain why the Dometic and Norcold recalls cannot protect your fridge in all situations? 3 75.00%
Did this explain why Dometic and Norcold state in their manuals that the heat for an absorption fridge boiler is critical? 3 75.00%
Did this explain why one should not use the 12VDC heaters while on the highway? 2 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-02-2022, 02:13 PM   #15
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Fans - Recalls - Accountants

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman View Post
1) When I was having problems with a Never-Cold, a few years back I finally got to talk to a fellow at Norcold about the issues. All he could do was to refer me to a local technician....ha ha ha. He said that they could not provide that type information due to pending litigation. They knew they had problems and were just hiding from the issue. I pointed out to him that his recall which had just come out did not solve the problems, just tried to stop the unit before there was damage and only addressed part of the problem.

2) I managed to get it cooling better by adding two additional fans outside for better cooling (it already had two running on a thermostat). I wired the 12 VDC fans in series to operate at a slower speed on 6 volts. I added a 3" fan inside to get better air circulation, replaced the thermistor and moved it one fine to the left.

3) Without getting into the thermodynamics and chemistry, the unit now cooled much better. I was looking at getting your Defender, but we sold the RV and bought a unit with a residential fridge, 6 VDC battery bank and a 2800-Watt inverter. I was a much happier camper. It kept the Blue Bell ice cream frozen and the beer and steaks cold as well.

4) We have had older RVs with ammonia absorption units that cooled well and lasted 30 years. In the past, they could design a reliable unit that worked, but the all-mighty accountant rules and the engineer gets kicked to the curb. Just design things to last through the warranty and no more.

I am happy to be retired and not having to fight those battles any longer.

Ken
Hi Ken,

1) You are correct, the recall does not solve the problems, see this test we did:

https://youtu.be/Vvuutx7ANKA

Q1) Do you know what the temperature of steel is when it is red hot?
Q2) What is the yield point of steel with 350psi pressure on it, and red hot?

2) Although fans help, the truth is that the boiler is within an insulated housing. Fans do not, and can not, keep the boiler from overheating. Only the Fridge Defend can. We engineered a fan control that is almost silent. It is not the volume of air, like these cheep muffin fans that are not truthful about there CFM, it is how the air is applied, this is why our system is engineered.

3) Face it, Dometic and Norcold forced you to get a residential by their policies. But, would love to get into it, there are reasons why the newer fridges fail like they do, and the Fridge Defend solves most of these problems

4) "the all-mighty accountant rules and the engineer gets kicked to the curb", well, do you feel that it is the engineers job to keep the public safe or the accountants?

Q3) Do you feel something should be done about this through NHTSA, ASME, and other avenues?

Thanks for your comments
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Old 06-02-2022, 02:31 PM   #16
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Every time I read one of these I feel like I am reading an 'info-commercial'

Some good info then it goes off into commercial land.

Sorry...........
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Old 06-02-2022, 03:15 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Every time I read one of these I feel like I am reading an 'info-commercial'

Some good info then it goes off into commercial land.

Sorry...........
My older coach has a dedicated 500 watt inverter serving the reefer. Useful when going down the road and to stifle the need for inconvenient trips for propane. But I suppose a 2001 unit was unaffected by the bean-counters. No trick fans needed either.
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Old 06-02-2022, 03:28 PM   #18
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12VDC Heater

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb56 View Post
Thanks for explaining, I didn't know about the 12 volt heater not being able to re-start the cooling process, maybe that's why it bypasses thermostat control? The 12 volt on my Dometic 8555 did not maintain the temp at all, after I discovered it was only seeing 11.5 volts with the engine running I rewired it straight from the battery bank (fused of course) with #8 wire and now get 13 volts while driving (gained 32 watts) but it still loses ground while driving longer distances just not as bad. This year I may try driving with it on gas, have not tried that with this rig. I have done numerous mods to my 8555 including fans & Fridge Defend, corrected the bad venting, insulation and venting flue to the outside instead of letting it dump out under the condenser like Winnebago left it
Thanks for you kind comments, as long as you have the Fridge Defend, you can safely drive with the fridge running on 12VDC. As you mentioned, any resistance in the power supply will drop the voltage.

This is why we run our fridge on 120VDC with a dedicated 700W pure sine inverter. The advantage, the wind does not cause issues with the 120VAC heater. I insulated around the 120VAC heater and removed the 12VDC heater, the 12VDC heater was a heat sink to the boiler over all.

Thanks for your post
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Old 06-02-2022, 03:32 PM   #19
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Adding to the Joy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Every time I read one of these I feel like I am reading an 'info-commercial'

Some good info then it goes off into commercial land.

Sorry...........
That's OK, sometimes knowledge that helps people does not meet the needs of some. Thanks for your comments, they added something

Safety is all our business
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Old 06-02-2022, 07:48 PM   #20
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I tossed my RM1210 out the door after piddling with it for two years. When I cut it apart just for fun, the insulation around the refrigerator section was saturated with water.

I get and applaud what you are doing. As you say, safety is your goal.

However, I see all of the mods to "fix" these units as "lipstick on a pig". I live in my 2005 Mountain Aire five to seven months out of the year. An absorption refrigerator is just not the answer for thet scenario.
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Old 06-03-2022, 05:28 AM   #21
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Dedicated Ground -- Feedback -- More Safety Education

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb56 View Post
I rewired it straight from the battery bank (fused of course) with #8 wire and now get 13 volts while driving (gained 32 watts) but it still loses ground while driving longer distances just not as bad.
I'm sorry I forgot to address this one point regarding your 12VDC heater.

Did you run a 12VDC 8 AWG ground wire?

Remember, it is called a circuit because there has to be a return path to ground. In my 47 years of automotive electrical diagnostics and teaching, I find grounds to be one of the most common reasons that equipment does not work (more on this below).

If you run a dedicated 8 AWG ground to your fridge, and your inverter, you may see a big change in operation. This is assuming you have high resistance in the chassis ground.

Feedback A lot of folks have what they deem mysterious electrical issues.

Most of these issues are what are called in my industry: ground loop feedback. What is this?

Let's say you have a chassis ground at the back of your vehicle for equipment that draws high power like your 12VDC heaters. Now lets say your engine temperature gauge is grounded in the middle of the chassis. Now lets say that your battery, what is considered the electrical circuit ground potential zero is at the front of the chassis.

If you have high resistance between the middle and front of the vehicle chassis, the fridge 12VDC heater ground may try to ground (feed back) through your temperature gauge and make it go crazy!

Hope this helps explain some of those wild electrical issues folks experience.
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Old 06-03-2022, 05:39 AM   #22
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Water in Insulation

Quote:
Originally Posted by bentjm View Post
I tossed my RM1210 out the door after piddling with it for two years. When I cut it apart just for fun, the insulation around the refrigerator section was saturated with water.

I get and applaud what you are doing. As you say, safety is your goal.

However, I see all of the mods to "fix" these units as "lipstick on a pig". I live in my 2005 Mountain Aire five to seven months out of the year. An absorption refrigerator is just not the answer for thet scenario.
I do not know about you, but I have seen some cute pigs

For that scenario, we have another YouTube video (ask and you will receive) that covers this common subject. Condensation buildup in the evaporator compartment is a common problem. I am presently going to take my RM2353 out of my rig to reseal it after 19 years of use. I do not mind putting lipstick on this pig and getting more use out of it.

RM2353 is the best fridge I have ever owned! It likes 100 degree F weather, freezer 0 and fridge 34. Last year at night I read these temperatures, during the day when it hit 90, the fridge would climb to 45degF, this is due to water in the insulation.
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Old 06-04-2022, 04:28 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend View Post
I do not know about you, but I have seen some cute pigs

For that scenario, we have another YouTube video (ask and you will receive) that covers this common subject. Condensation buildup in the evaporator compartment is a common problem. I am presently going to take my RM2353 out of my rig to reseal it after 19 years of use. I do not mind putting lipstick on this pig and getting more use out of it.

RM2353 is the best fridge I have ever owned! It likes 100 degree F weather, freezer 0 and fridge 34. Last year at night I read these temperatures, during the day when it hit 90, the fridge would climb to 45degF, this is due to water in the insulation.
Yeah, it can be done. But, why bother repairing something with so many inherent issues?

It took less effort to install a Samsung RF18 than it would have taken to totally strip down the RM1200 and replace the saturated insulation.

I now have 17.5 cu ft instead of 12 cu ft. I have a modern refrigerator that I can monitor via the Internet. I can set the freezer and refrigerator temperatures independently. It does not care what the outside temperatures are. And, best of all - my wife is much happier.

Unless you are boondocking with minimal solar, I don't understand why anyone would choose an absorption refrigerator.

But, many do and you help them do so safely.

Good for you.
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Old 06-04-2022, 08:27 AM   #24
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USS Decatur -- Babcock & Wilcox Boilers

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Every time I read one of these I feel like I am reading an 'info-commercial'

Some good info then it goes off into commercial land.

Sorry...........
I hoped you would jump in on the knowledge:

1) From your experience, do the Babcock & Wilcox Boilers have thermal control?

2) Is the thermal control outside the boiler insulation on a separate part of the ship?

3) Are the controls monitoring the heat source rather than the actual boiler?

Safety is what we share, and do, we live eat, breath, and have passion for what we do
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Old 06-04-2022, 10:14 AM   #25
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Should think you would know that a WWII era Naval boiler can be operated with a pressure gage and level gage a good top watch, a blower man and a check man.
Unfair to compare apples to oranges.
Two entirely different cycles. BTs have to worry about MMs sucking them down the main steam line. Ha, HA.
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Old 06-04-2022, 10:44 AM   #26
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Quote:
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Should think you would know that a WWII era Naval boiler can be operated with a pressure gage and level gage a good top watch, a blower man and a check man.
Unfair to compare apples to oranges.
Two entirely different cycles. BTs have to worry about MMs sucking them down the main steam line. Ha, HA.
It should also be pretty obvious what is going on here, just like Old-Biscuit said.

Those were likely rhetorical questions. If not, as you’ve pointed out, it brings into question the level of expertise the OP claims to have. I doubt Old-Biscuit will feed into what he called an “infomercial”. He shares his knowledge when people ask questions. But then, he doesn’t have a product to sell.
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Old 06-05-2022, 05:34 AM   #27
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Safe Boiler Operation

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It should also be pretty obvious what is going on here, just like Old-Biscuit said.

Those were likely rhetorical questions. If not, as you’ve pointed out, it brings into question the level of expertise the OP claims to have. I doubt Old-Biscuit will feed into what he called an “infomercial”. He shares his knowledge when people ask questions. But then, he doesn’t have a product to sell.
"Rhetorical Questions": No, I was creating a dramatic effect based on boiler operation to make a point in order to get an answer.

"It brings into question the level of expertise", this is the point, expertise is need to operate a boiler. Thus, safe boiler operation should be understood, and who understands boiler operation better than one that depends on it in a vessel?

"OP claims" I googled this, I like it, OutPatient claims.

This is about safety, and yes we have a safety product. May I ask this question?

Would you operate a boiler without thermal protection?

Thank you gentlemen for the sharing of knowledge
I am impressed by the level of expertise on iRV2, thanks for the kind support
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Old 06-05-2022, 05:51 AM   #28
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Some, but not all of the boilers I have been involved with have had fusible plugs. But you know that. And it is different technology, anyway.
Mr. Fridge Defend, I think your campaign is likely turning many away from investing in technology that only you can save.
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