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View Poll Results: Quality of Heat Absorption Fridge Boiler Curve
Did this explain why an absorption fridge boiler can overheat? 3 75.00%
Did this explain why the Dometic and Norcold recalls cannot protect your fridge in all situations? 3 75.00%
Did this explain why Dometic and Norcold state in their manuals that the heat for an absorption fridge boiler is critical? 3 75.00%
Did this explain why one should not use the 12VDC heaters while on the highway? 2 50.00%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 4. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-10-2022, 12:15 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
How is that relevant to a boiler in an RV fridge operated by someone who likely only knows how to turn the fridge on and off and probably doesn't even know it uses a boiler?

"Hands on daily" does not describe the care and feeding of an RV fridge boiler. That's why automated safety devices are needed more in consumer products. That focus seems to have been lost in this thread.

Ray
RV Absorption fridge is a 300 PSI Boiler operated daily W/O thermal protection and NO auto safety controls for boiler temps provided by Dometic or Norcold which is where Mr. Fridge Defender comes in

*At least Atwood HE Series provided a TILT Sensor
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:28 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
That's why automated safety devices are needed more in consumer products. That focus seems to have been lost in this thread.

Ray
But the RV fridge manufacturers do not provide adequate safety devices for their equipment. This is where to have to add the external Defender controls.

Ken
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Old 06-10-2022, 12:56 PM   #45
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Absorption Refrigerator Quality of Heat

Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman
But the RV fridge manufacturers do not provide adequate safety devices for their equipment. This is where to have to add the external Defender controls.

"Adequate" is determined by government regulations and the courts, not by individual's opinions, no matter how qualified those opinions may be.

People are free to learn more and take additional precautions if they desire, depending on their risk tolerance. It's the same with an EMS versus a surge protector versus nothing.

There are over a half-million new RVs built each year (adding to the total RV population), probably most with RV fridges, yet the stats suggest low thousands of fires. If those fire stats were broken down by build year I'd bet that most of those units were not built in the last decade.

Ray
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Old 06-10-2022, 05:25 PM   #46
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Facts on Safety

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
"Adequate" is determined by government regulations and the courts, not by individual's opinions, no matter how qualified those opinions may be.

People are free to learn more and take additional precautions if they desire, depending on their risk tolerance. It's the same with an EMS versus a surge protector versus nothing.

There are over a half-million new RVs built each year (adding to the total RV population), probably most with RV fridges, yet the stats suggest low thousands of fires. If those fire stats were broken down by build year I'd bet that most of those units were not built in the last decade.

Ray
This is not a thread on opinions, it is a thread on facts.

Boiler operators know, and absorption refrigeration manufactures know. How could allowing a boiler to "run away" be the best policy for reliability and safety?

There is another thread that shows the following plot, it gives the facts behind the issues:



This is a graph of the boiler temperature (yellow), and the pressure (blue) in addition to the temperature at which damage occurs to the fridge (red curve is water boiling point in boiler).

ZONE 1: This is normal operation for the fridge.

ZONE 2: The fridge is tilted at 3 degrees off-level.

Note that the purple curve is the Fridge Defend temperature at which the Fridge Defend turns off the heat source in order to protect the fridge and prevent failures.

ZONE 3: The fridge is leveled, and normal operation is resumed.

Please respond to this information above, this thread is in the interest of safety. There are some supper smart people helping on iRV2, let's keep the discussion going in the interest of RV safety, not opinion or other things that do not bear the facts.
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Old 06-11-2022, 06:26 AM   #47
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The Authorities

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
"Adequate" is determined by government regulations and the courts..
Well, then the courts & Norcold already determined that Norcold's response was not adequate. Why else would Norcold settle for $36 million? Why do manufactures settle cases before they go to court, and insist on non disclosure agreements (NDA)?

Follow the money
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Old 06-13-2022, 05:07 AM   #48
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More Facts

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post

There are over a half-million new RVs built each year (adding to the total RV population), probably most with RV fridges, yet the stats suggest low thousands of fires. If those fire stats were broken down by build year I'd bet that most of those units were not built in the last decade.

Ray
The discussion seems to peter out based on fact being presented.

Please read this article, and make comment on the quote above, it explains some of the mystery and debunks the propaganda:

How Heat Makes Cold: How The Absorption Refrigerator In Your RV Works

FACT: a thing that is known or proved to be true.

Thank you gentlemen for the thoughtful discussion
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Old 06-14-2022, 07:09 AM   #49
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The Stats and Opinion versus Fact

Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
"Adequate"?

There are over a half-million new RVs built each year (adding to the total RV population), probably most with RV fridges, yet the stats suggest low thousands of fires. If those fire stats were broken down by build year I'd bet that most of those units were not built in the last decade.

Ray


Here is a photo taken by an academic customer of ours.
It was taken in the spring of 2022 at Rocker Montana.

It shows an RV that is less than "last decade" old. The fridge is reported to be a Dometic, but it is hard to tell the difference with this photo.

More Fact
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Rocker-Fridge-Fire.jpg
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ID:	368235  
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Old 06-14-2022, 08:06 AM   #50
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As a potential customer, all I can say is:

1. TMI. Way too much information. Sure, make all the information available in a knowledge base of some sort, but your website's initial page is practically indigestible. "Quality of Heat Absorption Fridge Boiler Curve"? Why should I need to even think about that phrase? Assume I have the attention span of a gnat.

2. From maybe the first video on your website -- I don't remember after everything I was just inundated by -- you say something to the effect of your unit being protected intellectual property and that the refrigerator manufacturers have already tried and failed to infringe on it -- then you go on to explain that they do not have the needed protection features in their units. This is another example of TMI and it sounds like you're preventing the manufactures from adding needed safety features. As a potential customer, it's a big turn-off -- at least in the way it's presented.

3. I'd like to see installation videos of the actual product in actual refrigerators -- not ambiguous graphics that appear to be from the mid 90's.

In the end, I'm left with the feeling that it's probably a product I should think about adding, but it's not presented in a clean and clear enough way for me to immediately act on. Instead, it's something my mind wants to file under "scam", even if it's not one.
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Old 06-16-2022, 08:41 AM   #51
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Way too much information

Quote:
Originally Posted by whybother View Post

As a potential customer, all I can say is:

1. TMI. Way too much information. Sure, make all the information available in a knowledge base of some sort, but your website's initial page is practically indigestible. "Quality of Heat Absorption Fridge Boiler Curve"? Why should I need to even think about that phrase? Assume I have the attention span of a gnat.

2. From maybe the first video on your website -- I don't remember after everything I was just inundated by -- you say something to the effect of your unit being protected intellectual property and that the refrigerator manufacturers have already tried and failed to infringe on it -- then you go on to explain that they do not have the needed protection features in their units. This is another example of TMI and it sounds like you're preventing the manufactures from adding needed safety features. As a potential customer, it's a big turn-off -- at least in the way it's presented.

3. I'd like to see installation videos of the actual product in actual refrigerators -- not ambiguous graphics that appear to be from the mid 90's.

In the end, I'm left with the feeling that it's probably a product I should think about adding, but it's not presented in a clean and clear enough way for me to immediately act on. Instead, it's something my mind wants to file under "scam", even if it's not one.
Thanks for monitoring this thread, and I agree with this statement:

"Way too much information"

1) I will start by saying that my phone has rang 4 times from the time I started this response, I will try and make it quick

My wife and I are engineers, and that is what this thread is about, the details of boiler operation. Forgive our home page, just take from it that there is a problem that our product fixes.

2) "refrigerator manufacturers have already tried and failed to infringe on it -- then you go on to explain that they do not have the needed protection features in their units."

You got it, and do you not ask your self the question: If the manufactures put up to $100k into patent attorneys, then this product is needed?

3) Try clicking on one of these links:

I do not know which fridge you have, so here is the scoop you asked for:

a) Wiring Basics

b) Norcold Boiler Sensor Install

c) Dometic Boiler Sensor Install

d) Fan Install

4) "Instead, it's something my mind wants to file under "scam", even if it's not one."

Well this is exactly why I present things the way I do, it is reported to me that both Dometic and Norcold are telling folks that their fridge does the same thing our control does, and this takes us full circle to your comment:

"refrigerator manufacturers have already tried and failed to infringe on it -- then you go on to explain that they do not have the needed protection features in their units."

Thanks for your interest in RV safety and protecting your investment
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:36 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend View Post
Thanks for monitoring this thread, and I agree with this statement:

"Way too much information"

[...]

My wife and I are engineers, and that is what this thread is about, the details of boiler operation. Forgive our home page, just take from it that there is a problem that our product fixes.
Then you should pay someone to build you a new website and help you distill your message.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend View Post
ask your self the question: If the manufactures put up to $100k into patent attorneys, then this product is needed?
This doesn't change the fact that the way you present this information does little to encourage my purchase -- quite the opposite.

"Doth Protest too Much" comes to mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend View Post
I do not know which fridge you have, so here is the scoop you asked for:
None of those links show what I requested: A video of the actual product being installed in an actual refrigerator -- not renderings -- not still images. I have an older Dometic, but since most absorption refrigerators are similar in construction, a video demonstration of installation in just about any actual refrigerator, from start to finish, would help.
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Old 06-17-2022, 09:57 AM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit View Post
Mr Fridge Defend asks

Would you operate a boiler without thermal protection?

YEP

Did so for 6 yrs NAVY and 25 Yrs Power Plants
Operating 150#, 450#, 1200#, 3600# boilers with up to 2.2 million pounds/hr steam flows

1000*F Superheated/Reheat Steam Temps

NONE had so call thermal protections other then ME as the Control Operator


Information and the sharing of same is great and should be done

'Info-commercials' are annoying, boring and get turned off ----can't get to remote fast enough

Just saying............
You should'a seen my wife's face when I gave her the PQS for her 'Top Watch' training.

I think a little automation will be good for my marriage.
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Old 06-17-2022, 10:32 AM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR View Post
"Adequate" is determined by government regulations and the courts, not by individual's opinions, no matter how qualified those opinions may be.

People are free to learn more and take additional precautions if they desire, depending on their risk tolerance. It's the same with an EMS versus a surge protector versus nothing.

There are over a half-million new RVs built each year (adding to the total RV population), probably most with RV fridges, yet the stats suggest low thousands of fires. If those fire stats were broken down by build year I'd bet that most of those units were not built in the last decade.

Ray
In a capitalist society it is the consumers who determine what is "adequate." Speak with your pocketbooks and the manufacturers will hear.
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