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Old 06-20-2022, 10:36 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy View Post
Ammonia absorption refrigeration is used on boats, ships, in ice plants, freezes the hockey floor at your local arena... and the place you hear about fires are in RVs, which makes me point the finger at the compromises of 'value engineering' by Dometic and Norcold.

Until they are successfully sued we will continue to see these as the #2 cause of RV fires.

My suggestion is to lobby the *insurance* industry, as they pay for the losses. The cost of claims is what brought that industry to establish Underwriters Labs and the NFPA, National Fire Protection Assn, who writes model life safety codes.
Not to be left out, even boats are making the headlines. Two days in a row, one in the Pacific, one in the Atlantic.
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Old 06-21-2022, 07:55 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy View Post
Ammonia absorption refrigeration is used on boats, ships, in ice plants, freezes the hockey floor at your local arena... and the place you hear about fires are in RVs, which makes me point the finger at the compromises of 'value engineering' by Dometic and Norcold.

Until they are successfully sued we will continue to see these as the #2 cause of RV fires.

My suggestion is to lobby the *insurance* industry, as they pay for the losses. The cost of claims is what brought that industry to establish Underwriters Labs and the NFPA, National Fire Protection Assn, who writes model life safety codes.
You and TXiceman seem to understand the safety consequences.

We at Fridge Defend are glad that there are folks with education that feel that safety is more important than profits. For a responsible business, when innovation improves safety, the safety should be implemented ASAP.

I am all in for change, I am an absorption refrigeration specialist.
I am also a Professional Engineer:

1) Engineers are expected to exhibit the highest standards of honesty and integrity.

2) Issue public statements only in an objective and truthful manner.

I am not a marketer, nor a great organizer of online public change.

You give me the advice, and I will follow it to try and make change.

Thanks for your help, we do not want to louse a Kinkade puppy, or any of you!
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Old 06-21-2022, 08:24 AM   #17
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Coach fires are scary. Once lit, these RVs go up like a torch so it's super important to keep up with maintenance and know your escape routes inside your motorhome and really learn how to operate those emergency exit windows. I wasn't aware of the dangers as I grew up with the 3-way fridge like most everyone. It wasn't until I purchased our current unit that I began to realize this danger and we now own a 12v fridge.
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Old 06-21-2022, 11:10 AM   #18
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There's no way a fire investigator could look at that mess, especially since it seems the fridge fell over, and determine that the fridge was the cause unless there was a witness or the owner talked with the investigator about problems they were having. Also, since they bought a used RV, while they may have had it level there is no assurance that the previous owners took the same care.

As for NFPA stats, they never mention that the use of NFIRS, the National Fire Incident Reporting, is voluntary. They also never mention that only 18% of fire departments in the USA are full time and the remainder are part-time or volunteer. That can make the use and accuracy of reporting even less accurate.

There also are a multitude of ways that a single incident can get reported through NFIRS. At best the NFPA dataset is very incomplete. At worst it can be misleading. And probably both.

With a half-million new RV's being produced each year an absorption fridge is even less of a risk than an engine fire.

Is the ARP Fridge Defend a good product? Seems to be. Can it hurt anything other than your pocketbook? Probably not unless it cuts the fridge off due to an ARP failure. I wired mine in so that I can easily bypass it if that ever occurs.

Things like the ARP Fridge Defend, an EMS, a TPMS, and similar are just a form of insurance with a one-time premium payment. It all depends on your comfort with specific levels of risk acceptance.

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Old 06-21-2022, 12:17 PM   #19
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Can't see anyplace that specifies what independent testing body has tested the fridge defend unit for safety. Also, just throwing fires of unknown origin into the mix has a tendency to dilute the reality with scare tactics. Most marine fires are from improperly handled fuel vapors and engine fires. Fires are scary. We all need to deal with it.
Living in a campground for seven months while the house was built we saw three units burn to the ground. Nobody hurt so that was good. All three were noticed early and all three were heater fires. If nobody had seen where they started, which was where the heater exhaust exits the unit, some would jump on the charred remains and scream fridge fire! Not saying it does not work, but one might figure that the vast majority of these fridge defend units are purchased by folks with new or close to new units with intact unmodified systems. These are also the systems that would have the lowest risk.
Owning an rv is work. Cleaning debris, webs and nests from areas around appliances is a lot harder than rolling the home fridge out every year to vacuum it. Some take shortcuts. Some have fires. Maybe more of a connection than claiming random boat fires were caused by a fridge when nobody has claimed such except those above.
Yes, scare tactics will sell some units but good science will sell even more.
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Old 06-21-2022, 12:38 PM   #20
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Can't see anyplace that specifies what independent testing body has tested the fridge defend unit for safety. Also, just throwing fires of unknown origin into the mix has a tendency to dilute the reality with scare tactics. Most marine fires are from improperly handled fuel vapors and engine fires. Fires are scary. We all need to deal with it.
Living in a campground for seven months while the house was built we saw three units burn to the ground. Nobody hurt so that was good. All three were noticed early and all three were heater fires. If nobody had seen where they started, which was where the heater exhaust exits the unit, some would jump on the charred remains and scream fridge fire! Not saying it does not work, but one might figure that the vast majority of these fridge defend units are purchased by folks with new or close to new units with intact unmodified systems. These are also the systems that would have the lowest risk.
Owning an rv is work. Cleaning debris, webs and nests from areas around appliances is a lot harder than rolling the home fridge out every year to vacuum it. Some take shortcuts. Some have fires. Maybe more of a connection than claiming random boat fires were caused by a fridge when nobody has claimed such except those above.
Yes, scare tactics will sell some units but good science will sell even more.
To be clear. I posted the photos of the boat fires. Nothing that I posted even remotely suggested that the cause of either fire had been determined. In both cases the cause of the fire is under investigation, as of yesterday.

Another member had posted earlier about boat fires not making the news. I had just read the 2 articles and posted the photos as I felt they were relevant to the earlier comment.

My sincerest apologies if the photos caused any confusion.
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:00 PM   #21
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With no evidence, they are not relevant at all. Kind of like saying the apple tree fell because it had too many oranges growing on it.
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Old 06-21-2022, 01:05 PM   #22
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With no evidence, they are not relevant at all. Kind of like saying the apple tree fell because it had too many oranges growing on it.
I never attempted to provide any sort of evidence. I explained it and now Iím going to let it go.
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Old 06-21-2022, 05:49 PM   #23
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Fire department showed me the intsity of fire and heat was at fridge area we never had any problems with the fridge at all the three years we owned it and previous owner used the camper 6 times and they never used the fridge . there was no waring to alert us of any problems and like some do we never drove with the fridge on I had a battery disconnect at battery box area and disconnected all power to camper and prophane off at all times while diving added two more fire extinguishers one in camper and one in tow vehicle and a second fire alarm and carbo moxide detector I thought this was arson untill I researched fires from a failed fridge due to what they told me I had no warning this was going to happen at all
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Old 06-21-2022, 08:38 PM   #24
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Fire department showed me the intsity of fire and heat was at fridge area we never had any problems with the fridge at all the three years we owned it and previous owner used the camper 6 times and they never used the fridge . there was no waring to alert us of any problems and like some do we never drove with the fridge on I had a battery disconnect at battery box area and disconnected all power to camper and prophane off at all times while diving added two more fire extinguishers one in camper and one in tow vehicle and a second fire alarm and carbo moxide detector I thought this was arson untill I researched fires from a failed fridge due to what they told me I had no warning this was going to happen at all

Sorry, I'm confused. You wrote about the precautions you took but did not mention when the fire occurred. If the electric is disconnected and the propane is off the fridge is not going to ignite.

Did your RV burn in storage, during towing, at a campground while in use, or what?

Do you recall the model year, make and exact model of both the RV and the fridge?

I worked on a fire department for fifteen years and my wife was a fire inspector as well. She and I were in a lot of fires together. That kind of keeps the "fires burning".

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Old 06-22-2022, 06:08 AM   #25
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Fridge fire

Go to the beginning of another fridge fire we were using our camper to travel
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Old 06-22-2022, 08:40 AM   #26
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My 2016 Precept has this sticker on the fridge. It has a sensor in the chimney.
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Old 06-22-2022, 09:36 AM   #27
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My 2016 Precept has this sticker on the fridge. It has a sensor in the chimney.
That catches the fridge temperature as an afterthought. Hopefully the unit did not get too hot and damage the unit internally.

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Old 06-22-2022, 09:47 AM   #28
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That catches the fridge temperature as an afterthought. Hopefully the unit did not get too hot and damage the unit internally.

Ken
Never had a problem with it. Was just showing it has a high temp sensor from the factory.
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