Another RV Fridge Fire

[glens]

Bought our Revolution 40C last fall. Before we spent a night in it had the Nevercold Pulled and replaced with a Residential Fridge. It (the Double Door Nevercold) had been upgraded and looked new inside but not safe enough for me. Had one let the smoke out in a class c years ago and have never trusted them.

[Solo_RV_Guy]

Originally Posted by astrnmrtom

I think it's the urban legend part of this subject that people are pushing back against. Not the fact that refrigerator fire DO happen, it's that ANY burnt RV is assumed to be caused by a failed refrigerator.

Astute astronomer you are, Tom.

I'm not going to question @Fridge Defend motivation (and he invoked Roger Boisjoly, whose remorse** over his sense of failure was immense, as was his commitment to raise the value of humans in engineering decisions - I'm down with Roger!). I believe that as RVers we need to understand the risks in order to mitigate them to our own comfort level.

That requires a high signal to noise, and 'social' and other media (forums?) tend to have a higher noise floor that can obscure objectivity and appeal to emotion... It's very bad when these failures DO happen but it's important to know how statistically infrequent they are as a metric, which also includes their level of concern and cost of successful remediation of the concerns. Seldom do all 3 vectors intersect, so it's "pick any two".

Emotionally, it's always impactful when the family with such a loss shares their story with us. We get it. We understand. We care about them, and wonder what the chances are of our joining such an unfortunate club. For some, that question moves the needle a little or a lot.

** edit for footnote: if you are not familiar with Roger, click the link in Fridge Defend's post. Seriously. Imagine being the guy who has to tell his boss, and his boss's boss... that launching the Challenger is almost certain to fail big. And not convincing them to call it off.

[Fridge Defend]

Originally Posted by djh77

I purchased a 2000 Endeavor.
Good condition.
I waited for my Fridge Defend (ARP) to arrive, before using the fridge, a Norcold 1200.
When I installed the FD and fans, I found scorch marks on the plywood beside the chimney.
I wouldn't trust any RV fridge, without the ARP.
BTW the fridge on 3 works like new.

Thanks, I started this post based on what the victims of the fire stated to me.

I also included the quote about not taking advice from naysayers, this is because naysayers take a great deal of joy out of their actions.

The facts speak for themselves, there are a lot of RV fires.
RVs go up in flames very fast.
And absorption refrigerators have been the source of many of these fires.

It is through education that we advance, and through advice from folks that are studied on subjects that we are able to form risk analyses that results in the safety and success of the mission.

I am sincerely sorry if I have offended anyone by sharing safety information But, it is my job, it is what I do by my oath to the public as an engineer.

[Fridge Defend]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

That is due to RV MFGs installation

ARP will not prevent that event.

Insulation/shielding of Flue Exhaust is the issue

You are very wrong in this statement:

"ARP will not prevent that event."

This is a thread where we are applying the scientific method, above looks like an opinion unless stated with information to back up this claim.

The Fridge Defend will prevent boilers from overheating, which in turn keeps the corrosion inhibitor from failing, which in turn helps prevent ruptures of the system.

Biscuit's statement would be correct if for example a 120VAC wire was rubbing on the cooling unit, and the 120VAC found the shortest path to ground through the cooling unit. This type of fire is in the news at this time, and there is investigation into this issue.

"Insulation/shielding of Flue Exhaust is the issue" would be applicable in the above described situation, but insulation and shielding did not help prevent fires. According to Dometic this method is for "containment of fires", not prevention.

[TXiceman]

A number of years ago, I replaced a 30 year old Norcold with a new Norcold. As soon as I fired it up on propane, I was getting a hot smell and tracked it down to incorrectly installed insulation on the boiler. It was burning the insulation. I finally got the dealer to take the unit back and I stopped at Home Depot and bought a Haier electric refrigerator. So, you can still have a fire without the boiler overheating due to poor construction.

Ken

[Adaycj]

A PSA is a public service announcement. There are no insults in my post. I'm not even sure if you are directing that at me even though you quoted me. If you see any I'll edit or delete.

You mention clicking on a post but there is no link.

When these other companies attempted to patent your idea, did you offer to sell them your device or offer a reasonable license to make their own?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/jalopni...1069825878/amp

[Old-Biscuit]

Originally Posted by djh77

I purchased a 2000 Endeavor.
Good condition.
I waited for my Fridge Defend (ARP) to arrive, before using the fridge, a Norcold 1200.
When I installed the FD and fans, I found scorch marks on the plywood beside the chimney.
I wouldn't trust any RV fridge, without the ARP.
BTW the fridge on 3 works like new.

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

That is due to RV MFGs installation

ARP will not prevent that event.

Insulation/shielding of Flue Exhaust is the issue

Originally Posted by Fridge Defend

You are very wrong in this statement:

"ARP will not prevent that event."

This is a thread where we are applying the scientific method, above looks like an opinion unless stated with information to back up this claim.

The Fridge Defend will prevent boilers from overheating, which in turn keeps the corrosion inhibitor from failing, which in turn helps prevent ruptures of the system.

Biscuit's statement would be correct if for example a 120VAC wire was rubbing on the cooling unit, and the 120VAC found the shortest path to ground through the cooling unit. This type of fire is in the news at this time, and there is investigation into this issue.

"Insulation/shielding of Flue Exhaust is the issue" would be applicable in the above described situation, but insulation and shielding did not help prevent fires. According to Dometic this method is for "containment of fires", not prevention.

When quoting a response......quote what the response was to
I found scorch marks on the plywood beside the chimney.

ARP will not prevent that

Insulation/shielding of Flue Exhaust is the issue



Simple......CONTEXT

[Fridge Defend]

Originally Posted by jimmyweda

I guess my question is why is that Dometic isn't forced to absorb the cost to have everyone upgrade to a proper fix rather than the simple upgrade kit they supplied. Seems wrong to me that they are able to get away with a bandaid fix rather than a cure.

First, I did obtain permission to quote a former Dometic engineer that views this forum, he is still in the RV industry:

"People dont realize just how dangerous they [absorption refrigerators] can be."

"You never see the or hear the claims that Dometic receives over Absorption refrigerator damage, but there are alot."

"When i tell people that I was sr mfg eng with Dometic they sometimes ask me questions about their refrigerators. I think your product is needed."

"We called it a band-aid"

This last quote is here so that it is clear how the so called fix was referenced by the folks producing it.

The question above in this thread was:

Did I attempt to share my technology with Dometic and Norcold?

1) Here is the response to a letter to Norcold bring to their attention that their recall is not sufficient, and that we are willing to share our technology with them (click on the link):

"Norcold's Recall Kit 634737 functions only to address extremely limited, catastrophic conditions in which liquid is drained from the system (e.g. as a result of a leak)."

2) With Dometic, when trying to speak with them, they issue personal insults, kind of like some of the posts here.

Putting childish behavior aside, see the letter from Dometic to the EU on my home page, they fully acknowledge to the EU that by regulation of boiler temperature that the fridge is safer and more reliable. So, all I can gather from this document, Dometic is fully aware by their own admission, but they do not seem to care by their actions.

One would think that if a CEO knew of a solution, they would be knocking down my door seeking my cooperation.

I am glad to share information, and I try to behave like a gentleman I must say, this adventure has been a strange ride

[Fridge Defend]

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

When quoting a response......quote what the response was to
I found scorch marks on the plywood beside the chimney.

ARP will not prevent that

Insulation/shielding of Flue Exhaust is the issue



Simple......CONTEXT

OK, I found scorch marks on the plywood beside the chimney. This can be from the boiler overheating because the boiler is what regulates the heat by the chimney.

There are improper installs, this is not disputed. We are talking about a root cause issue here, and the root cause can be either the boiler overheating, or placing tubing too close to combustible materials.

[Florida Rang]

2018 Greyhawk after my fridge had to be replaced and after it quit working the second time I removed it and installed a Residential Refrigerator,,I have never been more pleased with how it keeps things cold & frozen……I tossed the Norcold Fridge into the dumpster felt good to treat it like it had treated me ,,,,BAD……

[fcbbob15]

I have been reading and trying to digest this thread. At first I thought it was a way to sell a product and was okay with that. I feel it is worth investing in and installing on absorption refrigerators and have done so on my last two refrigerators. The added plus for me is the fan controller option. Adding 4 fans at the top of my vent and being able to adjust the temperature versus running full time is great. I also learned about correcting install issues that the factory ignored. Safety is important to me and I have installed better fire extinguishers, tire monitoring system and electrical safety devices. So to those who feel need to bash any manufacturers safety devices don't buy them. For me I'll take any safety precautions that I can to make my family safer.

Robert

[Kid Gloves]

Originally Posted by fcbbob15

I have been reading and trying to digest this thread. At first I thought it was a way to sell a product and was okay with that. I feel it is worth investing in and installing on absorption refrigerators and have done so on my last two refrigerators. The added plus for me is the fan controller option. Adding 4 fans at the top of my vent and being able to adjust the temperature versus running full time is great. I also learned about correcting install issues that the factory ignored. Safety is important to me and I have installed better fire extinguishers, tire monitoring system and electrical safety devices. So to those who feel need to bash any manufacturers safety devices don't buy them. For me I'll take any safety precautions that I can to make my family safer.

Robert

I just read the entire thread and did not see anything posted that I would consider bashing a “safety device, that may or may not be being promoted on this thread.

What has been brought into question on this thread, by some members, is the motivation to start the thread and the intent behind that perceived motivation. That’s a delicate subject and proving anything would be quite a challenge even in a courtroom.

Getting back to your statement, if I may be so bold to ask, what did you read that suggested that the product was being bashed?

My apologies to anyone who might consider that question to be off topic, rude or aggressive, or if anything I’ve said in this post may have offended you, please forgive me. I honestly haven’t read anything that bashed the product and if something has I’d like to have it brought to my attention.

[bentjm]

Originally Posted by fcbbob15

For me I'll take any safety precautions that I can to make my family safer.

Robert

Then, do what many of us have done and replace the ammonia absorption refrigerator altogether with a residential refrigerator.

Problem solved.

[Archer2]

I don’t have a dog in this hunt, I do not have an absorption fridge. I looked at the Fridge Defend website and tried my best to understand what this device does. I’m not going to dwell on the website design and the way info is presented but I will just say the company isn’t doing itself any favors by the way the site is designed.
Anyway, as far as I can tell, what the basic device is is a remote-sensing thermostat that monitors the boiler temperature and shuts off the power to the fridge if the boiler temp goes above a predetermined temperature. There also appear to be some additional data reporting features via front panel LED display like temp, time until restart, voltage, etc.
While it wasn’t explicit on the website, I have to assume that the OEM designs have some similar circuitry that does the same thing but the Fridge Defender designers take issue with the (in their opinion excessively high) temperature that the OEM devices wait for before shutting down the power.
There’s a more expensive version that also includes control of external fans to help manage temperatures inside the refrigerator generally.
If I have understood it right then I don’t see any downside to using the thing but I also don’t see that it is an especially interesting device.
Again, I’m not trying to be critical, just trying to understand.