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06-26-2022, 08:51 AM
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#85
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wandering below the Gnat Line
Posts: 2,003
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But then Firefight recommends a gas unit for a refrigerator, which is _open_ at top and bottom. Not picking on Firefight, since I have several of their AFFF units, but I suspect an AFFF bottle small enough simply can't be had.
__________________
-jbh-
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06-26-2022, 11:20 AM
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#86
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 764
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Thanks you!
Quote:
Originally Posted by HBandWB
I am not one to scare easily but this scares the hell out of me! We have had our granddaughter camp with us and we have left our golden retriever alone in the trailer at times. Imagining a fire in the middle of the night while she is with us or while the dog is alone in the trailer...oh God, oh God, it is just too horrible to think about! So believe me, any measure I can take to reduce the risk of a trailer fire is one I will take asap!
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Thanks for the words of wisdom.
We have a customer that is also a retired fire fighter.
He took off on a trip with is grandson that is autistic.
He would leave his grandson alone in the RV because his grandson did not like going on hikes. He was high functioning and preferred to stay in the RV to play games.
The gentleman developed fridge problems, he could not keep his milk from spoiling in 2 days. He found our website, called me, and asked about the fire risk, and then about solution to his immediate cooling issues in the hot weather.
He installed our product, is solved his hot weather issues. He then wrote the manufacture, we will call them W. W responded by saying that the fridge was safe.
The fire fighter, he did not believe them when he came to iRV2 and found a number of fires that burned down rigs.
His job is keeping people safe, running into burning buildings, the last thing he wanted to do is place his own family in danger.
Ben Franklin coined this timeless phrase in 1736 in order to remind the citizens of Philadelphia to remain vigilant about fire awareness and prevention:
“An Ounce of Prevention Is Worth A Pound of Cure.”
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06-26-2022, 11:47 AM
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#87
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Solo Rvers Club Coastal Campers
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 1,773
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend
Thanks, I started this post based on what the victims of the fire stated to me….
The facts speak for themselves, there are a lot of RV fires.
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This statement led me down a rabbit hole on RV fires. Frankly, I never thought about it very much, thank you for the exercise.
Facts:
Roughly 2,000 RVs (both powered and non powered) catch fire each year.
There are 11,200,000 RVs registered in the USA.
(That is a .018% chance of having a fire in a given year. )
Average loss is $16,000.
Most common location is engine/wheel/running gear (28% of all fires)
Kitchen area is 7.5% of all fires. Kitchens includes stoves and ovens.
Only 15% of all fires are caused by equipment failure OR heat source.
(This could be extrapolated to only about .5% of fires in kitchen area are caused by equipment failure which, without detailed data, is an estimated 10 fires per year).
37% of RV fires are caused by an unintentional act.
Most common time of day of fire is 1pm-3pm. Which probably goes with those unintentional acts. (Awake vs sleeping). Also during the hours that many drive.
My takeaway from all this is I’m not worried about a fridge catching fire as the risk is very low. Over 1/3 of the fires are caused by a human act. I can’t help but wonder how many people burn candles or smoke in their RV.
I’m not minimizing the loss any individual incurred. But, after looking at the data, a spontaneous fridge fire isn’t in the top ten of RV fires.
https://www.rvandplaya.com/rv-fire-s...facts-to-know/
__________________
2009 Monaco Camelot 42PDQ
2011 JK
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06-26-2022, 04:23 PM
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#88
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky
This statement led me down a rabbit hole on RV fires. Frankly, I never thought about it very much, thank you for the exercise.
Facts:
Roughly 2,000 RVs (both powered and non powered) catch fire each year.
There are 11,200,000 RVs registered in the USA.
(That is a .018% chance of having a fire in a given year. )
Average loss is $16,000.
Most common location is engine/wheel/running gear (28% of all fires)
Kitchen area is 7.5% of all fires. Kitchens includes stoves and ovens.
Only 15% of all fires are caused by equipment failure OR heat source.
(This could be extrapolated to only about .5% of fires in kitchen area are caused by equipment failure which, without detailed data, is an estimated 10 fires per year).
37% of RV fires are caused by an unintentional act.
Most common time of day of fire is 1pm-3pm. Which probably goes with those unintentional acts. (Awake vs sleeping). Also during the hours that many drive.
My takeaway from all this is I’m not worried about a fridge catching fire as the risk is very low. Over 1/3 of the fires are caused by a human act. I can’t help but wonder how many people burn candles or smoke in their RV.
I’m not minimizing the loss any individual incurred. But, after looking at the data, a spontaneous fridge fire isn’t in the top ten of RV fires.
https://www.rvandplaya.com/rv-fire-s...facts-to-know/
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Thanks for the analysis!
To me the biggest value in a FD is in preventing damage to a fridge that's expensive, expensive to replace, and expensive to fix. I like W4KMA's solution, too. Hmmm...is FD UL- or RVIA-approved?
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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06-27-2022, 10:33 AM
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#89
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Senior Member
Texas Boomers Club Forest River Owners Club Ford Super Duty Owner RV Trip Wizard
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Heart of Texas
Posts: 5,992
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky
This statement led me down a rabbit hole on RV fires. Frankly, I never thought about it very much, thank you for the exercise.
Facts:
Roughly 2,000 RVs (both powered and non powered) catch fire each year.
There are 11,200,000 RVs registered in the USA.
(That is a .018% chance of having a fire in a given year. )
Average loss is $16,000.
Most common location is engine/wheel/running gear (28% of all fires)
Kitchen area is 7.5% of all fires. Kitchens includes stoves and ovens.
Only 15% of all fires are caused by equipment failure OR heat source.
(This could be extrapolated to only about .5% of fires in kitchen area are caused by equipment failure which, without detailed data, is an estimated 10 fires per year).
37% of RV fires are caused by an unintentional act.
Most common time of day of fire is 1pm-3pm. Which probably goes with those unintentional acts. (Awake vs sleeping). Also during the hours that many drive.
My takeaway from all this is I’m not worried about a fridge catching fire as the risk is very low. Over 1/3 of the fires are caused by a human act. I can’t help but wonder how many people burn candles or smoke in their RV.
I’m not minimizing the loss any individual incurred. But, after looking at the data, a spontaneous fridge fire isn’t in the top ten of RV fires.
https://www.rvandplaya.com/rv-fire-s...facts-to-know/
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^ This..
I'm not afraid of a 3-way fridge or propane. I definitely respect the flamable nature of gas and while in an RV, like in a plane, I take a sec to just be aware of the emergency exits. It may never happen in a person's lifetime, but if/when it does, it's going to be an unpleasant experience.
So, don't be a goldfish. Instead, be aware.
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06-28-2022, 08:13 AM
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#90
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 764
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Words of Wisdom
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasJeff
^ This..
I'm not afraid of a 3-way fridge or propane. I definitely respect the flamable nature of gas and while in an RV, like in a plane, I take a sec to just be aware of the emergency exits. It may never happen in a person's lifetime, but if/when it does, it's going to be an unpleasant experience.
So, don't be a goldfish. Instead, be aware.
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I very much apricate these words of wisdom.
In the real word, the airlines take time before a flight to teach safety.
The airline industry has to live by standards, and these standards are not set by the airline industry. They are set by years of experience and the FAA.
There are a lot of new RVers out there, and one issue is that most folks think that plug-in-play is a reality based on marketing. That is like saying, just go sit in the airplane seat, and if something does go wrong, well just deal with it
Everyone should be promoting safety, it is the job of the experienced RVer to teach the new RVer. How would you feel if during the flight attendant safety instruction, some naysayer interrupted with derisive or aggressive comments or abuse?
Let's support the thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts. This includes safety, or if one does not like safety, risk management that teaches safety
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06-28-2022, 09:50 AM
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#91
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Member
Join Date: Jun 2022
Posts: 31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbircky
This statement led me down a rabbit hole on RV fires. Frankly, I never thought about it very much, thank you for the exercise.
Facts:
Roughly 2,000 RVs (both powered and non powered) catch fire each year.
There are 11,200,000 RVs registered in the USA.
(That is a .018% chance of having a fire in a given year. )
Average loss is $16,000.
Most common location is engine/wheel/running gear (28% of all fires)
Kitchen area is 7.5% of all fires. Kitchens includes stoves and ovens.
Only 15% of all fires are caused by equipment failure OR heat source.
(This could be extrapolated to only about .5% of fires in kitchen area are caused by equipment failure which, without detailed data, is an estimated 10 fires per year).
37% of RV fires are caused by an unintentional act.
Most common time of day of fire is 1pm-3pm. Which probably goes with those unintentional acts. (Awake vs sleeping). Also during the hours that many drive.
My takeaway from all this is I’m not worried about a fridge catching fire as the risk is very low. Over 1/3 of the fires are caused by a human act. I can’t help but wonder how many people burn candles or smoke in their RV.
I’m not minimizing the loss any individual incurred. But, after looking at the data, a spontaneous fridge fire isn’t in the top ten of RV fires.
https://www.rvandplaya.com/rv-fire-s...facts-to-know/
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I followed the link to the article you referenced. They make a lot of claims without specific substantiation. Their links lead to home pages of organizations with excellent credibility. However, they do not link to any specific articles or reports. I did some searches on those sites and did not immediately find the source of the data quoted.
As a professional pilot for the last 40 years, I would need to dig deeper before I based safety decisions on anything they said.
As I said before, everyone is their own commanding officer. You pay your nickel and you take your chance.
All the best,
Chucker
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06-29-2022, 07:50 AM
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#93
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,063
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TXiceman
Frankly the amount of hydrocarbon in a residential fridge is just ounces and when leaked into a larger space will very unlikely have any adverse effect.
Ken
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It may not seem like very much yet we still see pretty horrific explosions from these units many of which have occurred when they were relatively new and just recently purchased.
Here are just two examples of residential refrigerator explosions due to the Propane/Iso-Butane refrigerant being used.
Samsung:
Whirlpool:
And there have been many others involving dorm room refrigerators, display cases, vending units, window air conditioners and split systems using these newer refrigerants that have maimed, dismembered or killed the occupants or service technicians.
There are security camera videos showing how violent these events are however many are too graphic to post here since injuries and loss of life are also captured in them.
Its a false sense of security to throw one of these units in a small space thinking you've completely eliminated the danger of a fire or explosion. Some manufactures now have minimum room volume requirements for units that use these refrigerants to minimize the level of damage if they malfunction. Most RV's don't meet the requirements for even a dormitory sized refrigerator.
__________________
Neil V
2001 Winnebago Adventurer WFG35U
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06-29-2022, 09:24 AM
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#94
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 2,184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuckerF14
I followed the link to the article you referenced. They make a lot of claims without specific substantiation. Their links lead to home pages of organizations with excellent credibility. However, they do not link to any specific articles or reports. I did some searches on those sites and did not immediately find the source of the data quoted.
As a professional pilot for the last 40 years, I would need to dig deeper before I based safety decisions on anything they said.
As I said before, everyone is their own commanding officer. You pay your nickel and you take your chance.
All the best,
Chucker
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We can pick anything apart. The tone of the article was that RV fires are a serious concern. Nothing in the article suggested that the risk or consequences of an RV fire should be ignored.
One forum member took it upon themselves to put the provided information into perspective by comparing those figures to the number of registered RV’s. That additional bit of information revealed that the risk of an RV fire from all causes is very low. That doesn’t mean we shouldn’t take measures to reduce the risk of a fire. Checking all of our electrical connections once a year might prevent more RV fires that any other single measure. Having more information allows us to make decisions that best suit our needs.
Fear sells safety. Whether it’s home insurance, locks on doors, steering stabilizers, a TPMS, dash cam, fire extinguisher or any number of other items, we buy these things out of fear that something bad will happen. I agree, that we need to evaluate our sources of information, regardless of what is being promoted.
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06-29-2022, 09:44 AM
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#95
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Moderator Emeritus
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Bryan, TX when not traveling.
Posts: 22,948
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NeilV, the amount of gas and potential hazard is very small. If this is such a concern, you must really worry about the huge propane tanks on the RV, the plastic or sheet metal gasoline tank on the RV or your auto or the absolute worst would be the natural gas line piped to your furnace in the home. You need to choose what is an issue and what is not and not listen to the folks running around screaming that the sky is falling.
Europe has been using hydrocarbon mix refrigerators for years. Some of the R-134a refrigerant replacements have hydrocarbon refrigerants in your auto A/C units. Wonder about a crash with this mixture of gas under the hood.
Ken
__________________
Amateur Radio Operator (KE5DFR)|No Longer Full-Time! - 2023 Cougar 22MLS toted by 2022 F150, 3.5L EcoBoost Tow Max FX4 Lariat Travel with one Standard Schnauzer and one small Timneh African Gray Parrot, retired mechanical engineer
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06-30-2022, 08:23 AM
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#96
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 764
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Fear & Facts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid Gloves
I agree, that we need to evaluate our sources of information, regardless of what is being promoted.
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One fact remains, statistics are compiled, and these values have to be truthful.
This is why checking ones sources is very important.
The NFPA is very reliable, and should be used as a base for fire information.
The absorption refrigerator manufactures refuse to publish there numbers of fires, so one has to use sources like NFPA and trusted & trained safety personnel like Mac the Fire Guy.
" regardless of what is being promoted."
I hope that this is not a decertation on the promotion of SAFETY.
EXAMPLE (please have an expert comment):
I was told by a navy conman, where his expertise was medical and not flight, told me that the F14 was an awful aircraft. The engines were far apart, and the blast deflector (for lack of the correct terminology) was too narrow for the F14. So what did I do? I asked an F14 pilot why the distance of the engines was an issue?
I came to find that this navy corpsman bashed the F14 for what was a safety issue that the pilots had to be aware of, not " fear"!
The issue turned out to be that the engines far apart each produce a torque on the aircraft. If one lost an engine on the carrier deck during take off, the remaining engine would cause the aircraft to fly off the side of the flight deck.
So, long story short: If I am operating an F14, I want to know about this issue. If I am operating an RV, I want to know about the issues.
This is called safety by education, not " promoting".
My wife is learning American clichés.
When a guy said to me " Ignorance is Bliss", my wife said to me, YES:
Ignorance is bliss right up until it kills you!
Smart girl
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06-30-2022, 01:07 PM
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#97
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 26,810
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Absorption fridges are BAD
Residential fridges are BAD
Going back to large cooler with ICE.....
which is BAD if you can't get ICE
Guess I should park the RV and find another hobby that is not fraught with so much danger
Time to get the Reloading Equip back out and set up....now where did I keep that gun powder. Hummm
__________________
I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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06-30-2022, 02:17 PM
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#98
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2021
Posts: 2,184
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You’ll shoot your eye out.
Maybe a beef jerky and dried fruit diet? The Brits drink warm beer. Lay off the ice cream and you’ll be safe.
Oh wait, what about cholesterol and glucose levels?
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