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BFlinn181 · 02-06-2018, 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArgoPilot

This is a one-way valve, or the petcock-type valve on one of the lines into the pump itself?

It would be a check (one way) valve, usually built right into the back of the pump. A ball valve might be in the intake line to the pump to allow the pump to draw in RV antifreeze or even fresh water if filling from water jugs or a bladder.

The levels monitors are notoriously inaccurate. The black and gray tanks only drain through their gate valves, they have no overflow or other openings except the rooftop vent. If the black tank overfills, it will back up to the toilet, in the case of the gray tank it usually makes itself known in the shower or tub. If you think the tanks are empty, pull the gate valves to verify, but have your stinky slinky hooked up just in case.

Old-Biscuit · 02-06-2018, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArgoPilot

This is a one-way valve, or the petcock-type valve on one of the lines into the pump itself?

NO...

Pump has an 'internal check valve'
It is a one directional flow diaphragm that prevents water from backflowing thru pump------when using pump or city water the pump casing is pressurized.
Leaky pump check valve allows pressure to drop causing pump to short cycle OR allows water to flow backwards thru pump when using city water ,,,,,,,,that can cause fresh water tank to overfill/overflow

Tank level sensors (especially those used on waste tanks) are notoriously lousy indicators of what tank levels are.
Stuff on them scale on them, being wet, crud on tank wall.....etc etc can and does cause them to show levels that are not even there or not show levels that are

Open waste tank dump valves.....no flow out then tanks are EMPTY in spite of what level monitor indicates

Fresh water tank should have a drain valve to drain it

Low point drains (hot/cold) drain the hot/cold plumbing LINES IF they have water in them (and you have opened a faucet to allow air into lines)
NO Check valves on those

Water heater tank has it is OWN drain plug in outside compartment
Water heater HOT Out can have a check valve so that water does not backflow into tank when water heater is bypassed
Water heater tank may have a check valve in cold inlet........some RV Mfgs install those. Winnebago likes to use both hot/cold check valves)

Waste tank cracks will allow contents to leak out........into compartment/into enclosed underbellies etc
BUT cracks in waste tanks and fresh water tank would RARELY allow mixing of the contents just wet everywhere.

Sounds like you need to FULLY inspect your tanks, drain lines, plumbing system etc by uncovering the underside of your RV so you can SEE where the water is leaking from

ArgoPilot · 02-07-2018, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit

Sounds like you need to FULLY inspect your tanks, drain lines, plumbing system etc by uncovering the underside of your RV so you can SEE where the water is leaking from...

Ugh...since the 30gal propane tank is permanently affixed right below, and metal cladding welded to the frame outriggers underneath that...that's a major vivisection I'd rather avoid (if possible). If the tanks are kaput, it's probable that few in this area would be up to the task of replacing them (unless a Boise local has info otherwise...hint-hint).

I've gone as far under the rig as I can behind the right rear wheel to see if any of the overfill or other vent lines are visible, as well as any main lines to or from tanks. Unfortunately for this issue, HR did a REAL good job of compartmentalizing things, so none of the tanks or associated spaghetti is visible. I do have a length of 1" clear plastic tubing I can use to syphon the freshwater tank a bit. I think that would be a wise start, just to verify there's no untoward matter in there. Once that's established, I can try the water pump and see if I'm just missing something, or if it just needed a little jarring to start working right.

l1v3fr33ord1 · 02-07-2018, 06:36 PM

ArgoPilot-

I'm late to this thread, but I can maybe help a little.

First off, re-read "Old-Biscuit's" posts, until you believe you understand all (or almost all) of what he's saying. He knows his stuff on water systems.

Second, your coach is old enough that:

a) It's likely someone has modified the water system, and
b) Few people will have a diagram of its original water system design, and
c) Some water system components may be broken

What does that mean? You have to diagram it out yourself. You have to test each component and function. Which, by your first post, you have already started to do.

Third, the most likely explanation for water in the fresh water tank when it's not expected is a failed water pump check valve- as has been pointed out. It is not likely that you have any cross-system contamination.

Fourth, where to start? Find the fresh water tank drain valve(s) and the fresh water tank gravity fill port, if one exists. Open the drain valve(s) and add water to the fresh water tank gravity fill with a hose. Does water drain through the tank onto the ground? Yes? Great! Close the drain valve(s) and add some water through the gravity fill. Open then valve(s). Drain the tank dry. Attach the hose to the city water/tank fill valve in the wet bay. Set the valve to tank fill. If there are any valves between the city water/tank fill valve and the fresh water tank, open them (my coach has one valve in an adjoining compartment, where one may not naturally look for it). Put water through the hose. Does water drain through the tank onto the ground? Yes? Great! Shut off the hose water supply. Drain the tank dry. Move the valve to the city water position. Turn on the hose water. Does water drain through the tank onto the ground? Yes? NOT great. The water pump internal check valve has failed.

Sorry for spelling everything out, but sometimes that's needed to establish a basic understanding of how things work or fail.

From there, you branch out into discovering, documenting, testing and configuring the other parts of the water system. By starting in the wet bay and moving outward, you will end up knowing how the system works, even those parts that you cannot see.

ArgoPilot · 02-09-2018, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by l1v3fr33ord1

Sorry for spelling everything out, but sometimes that's needed to establish a basic understanding of how things work or fail.

From there, you branch out into discovering, documenting, testing and configuring the other parts of the water system. By starting in the wet bay and moving outward, you will end up knowing how the system works, even those parts that you cannot see.

Apology not needed. I am quite the neophyte at these things, and am trying my best to pick as many of your far more experienced brains about them as I can. Thank you.

I'm not sure exactly what has or hasn't been modified. I know that there's a right spaghetti mess around the water pump, and that it doesn't try to come on when I press the on/off switch right there in the wet bay. Whenever I can get the wiring schema for that section, I plan on running my multi on it to see if the wiring's shot, or if a new water pump is in my future. As far as syphoning out the freshwater tank, I got almost NOTHING out of it, but what DID come out was clear. Phew so far...

BFlinn181 · 02-09-2018, 12:21 PM

Hook up the water pump directly to 12v to see if it works. If it does, then check each wire into it for polarity and voltage. Often the water pump has multiple switches in the RV. To work with multiple switches, a controller is installed, not always in an obvious place.

ArgoPilot · 02-09-2018, 02:56 PM

Hmm...didn't try the switch in the toilet closet yet...might give that a shot.

A CONTROLLER? Like the body electronics controllers on 2000 and newer vehicles? Even for something from 1994? I'll look in the electronics bay where the chassis cutoff switch is, but I don't remember seeing any of those.

BFlinn181 · 02-09-2018, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ArgoPilot

Hmm...didn't try the switch in the toilet closet yet...might give that a shot.

A CONTROLLER? Like the body electronics controllers on 2000 and newer vehicles? Even for something from 1994? I'll look in the electronics bay where the chassis cutoff switch is, but I don't remember seeing any of those.

Do you also have a pump switch on your levels panel or near the kitchen sink? In a DC system, there must be a controller to have more than one switch. It might be an older model than the one I linked, but direct current won't work from multiple locations without a controller of some type.

l1v3fr33ord1 · 02-09-2018, 04:54 PM

Here's a diagram for a two-location water pump switch circuit that does not use a controller.

ArgoPilot · 02-09-2018, 08:38 PM

Sooo...if I'm reading the schematic right, there aught to be a jumper near the pump itself to bypass the switch and power it direct-like. I guess closer examination is needed. It didn't continue out to power, so I'm ASSUMING there's a cartridge-type fuse on the 12v panel that services that circuit. One way or the other, tomorrow I'll try to see what's what.

ArgoPilot · 02-14-2018, 09:47 AM

Hmph!...

Well, I wasn't able to track down either the leak or the electrical issue. Nothing more frustrating than having to admit defeat and ask the Pros from Dover (or in this case Bish RV) to help you out...for a fee.

SO...the spot where our beloved land yacht has been parked when not in use (a lot less than you might expect) is empty. My lower lip hangs in shame and sadness. And hopefully the issue won't turn out to be anything more than a loose fitting or clamp...

ArgoPilot · 02-22-2018, 01:35 PM

UPDATE: Ouchie. The bill is gonna come in at around $2k.

BAD NEWS: HR was using polycarb piping for the water system in 1994. That is apparently verboten these days. From the city/tank water inlet to the various users (kitchen/bathroom sink, shower, toilet, etc.) almost ALL of the fittings were leaking. Whether from residual water in the system before I bought it or what not, over $110 worth of FITTINGS AND CLAMPS needed to be replaced. Considering each fitting and 2-4 clamps is around $1.50 or so...wow. Also, the toilet was attached to the mh by the drain pipe down to the black tank. Nothing else.

Glad none of us ever sat on it.

GOOD NEWS: All 3 tanks are intact and hold properly. System held pressure with no leaking after fittings replaced. Toilet easy replace of flange; all associated plumbing still good. Wooden underfloors still solid, no rot (I think God loves us), and grey/black evacuation valves still solid.

A tad spendy, but considering the fact we're dropping $500 on the furnace in the house we RENT, I think taking care of our OWN house (on wheels) deserves something. After all, it's been pulling yeoman's service since I bought it with comparatively little expense thus far.