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Old 10-25-2015, 01:07 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by puttin View Post
Hi Mel,

I've had my Trickle-Start in use for 5 years now and it's always worked.
puttin
I agree that a Trik-L-Start is needed on many coaches to charge the chassis, (starting), battery with the on-board inverter/charger.

BTW sometimes the terminology used in these posts gets confusing?/confused?

IMO all batteries in a coach are "coach batteries".
(Those "coach batteries" are either "house batteries" or "chassis batteries").

Mel
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(With two 12V "chassis" batteries and four 12V deep cycle marine "house" batteries)
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Old 10-25-2015, 01:25 PM   #30
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Chassis/House charging.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennis45 View Post
This discussion needs a Campfire and a bottle of Rum.
One of the statements regarding Winnebagos was half correct. I have a 2005 Adventurer 37b and it does not charge the house battery from the engine, and does not charge the Chassis battery from the charger.
This isn't a failure of anything, looking at the wiring diagram, the only thing connecting the two batteries is a boost relay, for use in starting assist. (for the chassis motor or for the gen set.)
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Old 10-25-2015, 02:37 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by Starsekr View Post
One of the statements regarding Winnebagos was half correct. I have a 2005 Adventurer 37b and it does not charge the house battery from the engine, and does not charge the Chassis battery from the charger.
This isn't a failure of anything, looking at the wiring diagram, the only thing connecting the two batteries is a boost relay, for use in starting assist. (for the chassis motor or for the gen set.)
Have you looked over the wiring diagram closly to see if the Boost relay is activated ONLY by the Boost switch.
You may find a fused wire to a "key on" power source that would also activate it or a small voltage sensing pc board that would activate it when the alternator is charging.

As said by others, they all charge the house from the engine.
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Old 10-25-2015, 04:50 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsekr View Post
...I have a 2005 Adventurer 37b and it does not charge the house battery from the engine, and does not charge the Chassis battery from the charger.
This isn't a failure of anything....
Your ignition circuit sends power to your boost solenoid so your house battery will charge. It has indeed failed if you are not charging with the engine running.

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Old 10-25-2015, 07:22 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Starsekr View Post
One of the statements regarding Winnebagos was half correct. I have a 2005 Adventurer 37b and it does not charge the house battery from the engine, and does not charge the Chassis battery from the charger.
This isn't a failure of anything, looking at the wiring diagram, the only thing connecting the two batteries is a boost relay, for use in starting assist. (for the chassis motor or for the gen set.)
BatteryPro is correct. In fact, Winnebago uses one of the more basic methods of charging coach/house batteries from the engine alternator. They simply close the isolator/boost/charge solenoid with an Ignition signal. Result, key on and engine running. all batteries being charged. If yours doesn't, then YES YOU DO have a failure.

Some time between 2002 and 2006, Winnebago did add a cheesy Trik-l-charge unit to charge the chassis batteries from the converter/charger. Not my favorite fix, but it works.
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Old 10-25-2015, 07:32 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mel s View Post
puttin
I agree that a Trik-L-Start is needed on many coaches to charge the chassis, (starting), battery with the on-board inverter/charger.

BTW sometimes the terminology used in these posts gets confusing?/confused?

IMO all batteries in a coach are "coach batteries".
(Those "coach batteries" are either "house batteries" or "chassis batteries").

Mel
'96 Safari,
(With two 12V "chassis" batteries and four 12V deep cycle marine "house" batteries)
Whether the unit has a converter or an Inverter/charger has nothing to do with if the coach needs an after market device to charge the chassis batteries from the on-board charger.

It is widely accepted within the knowledgeable RV folks that Coach batteries is synonymous with House batteries and Chassis batteries is synonymous with Engine batteries.
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Old 10-26-2015, 07:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Bounder View Post
Whether the unit has a converter or an Inverter/charger has nothing to do with if the coach needs an after market device to charge the chassis batteries from the on-board charger.
It is widely accepted within the knowledgeable RV folks that Coach batteries is synonymous with House batteries and Chassis batteries is synonymous with Engine batteries.
Old Bounder
I know that "whether the unit has a converter or an Inverter/charger has nothing to do with if the coach needs an after market device to charge the chassis batteries from the on-board charger".
And I know that "engine batteries", "chassis batteries" and "starting batteries" are one and the same.

But I did not know that "house batteries" are commonly called "coach batteries"...(however it does make sense).
Thanks

Mel
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Old 10-26-2015, 09:54 AM   #36
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Not to belabor the point, but deeply discharging ANY battery to the point that it requires 140 amps of current for a full half hour, is poor battery usage practice. After all, it is the state of charge/discharge of the battery that determines the charging amps, NOT necessarily the max capability of the charging system. Discharging any battery that completely can be destructive to the battery. Putting that heavy and lengthy load, even on a 160 amp alternator is certainly not recommended, either.

We don't have any disagreement on the value of a good heavy duty solenoid, just a slight variation on thoughts of why it may be needed.
I think you misunderstood what I said about AGM's. When discharged to 11.5 they are hungry. The charger, a magnum 2800W true sine wave inverter in my case, is programmed to deliver this for as long as the bank needs it. The alternator doesn't have such smarts as, because of the low internal resistance of the AGM's, will simply deliver that much current through the solenoid. Once the voltage regulator is being satisfied the current delivery will taper off. From the Magnum this is also true but under current and voltage calculations. The why this is done is outside my understanding. My inverter is a 3 stage unit. The point is that the solenoid may be subjected to heavy current for more than just a few minutes.

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Old 10-26-2015, 05:51 PM   #37
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I think you misunderstood what I said about AGM's. When discharged to 11.5 they are hungry. The charger, a magnum 2800W true sine wave inverter in my case, is programmed to deliver this for as long as the bank needs it. The alternator doesn't have such smarts as, because of the low internal resistance of the AGM's, will simply deliver that much current through the solenoid. Once the voltage regulator is being satisfied the current delivery will taper off. From the Magnum this is also true but under current and voltage calculations. The why this is done is outside my understanding. My inverter is a 3 stage unit. The point is that the solenoid may be subjected to heavy current for more than just a few minutes.
I think we are still whizzing on each others leg, but I actually thought that I DID understand your previous AGM comments, but must admit that I don't understand anything you've said in this quoted post.

Hungry or not, it is highly unlikely, IMHO, that a healthy 11.5v SOC battery could, or would, require or sustain 140 amps of charging current for any significant period of time.

Your alternator could be capable of supplying 240 amps and it still wouldn't make any difference to the battery that only needed, say 60 amps. I'm not sure what you meant by satisfying the "voltage regulator" to taper off the current. That comment didn't make sense to me. Neither does the comment that the Magnum does the same thing via current and voltage calculations.

In both cases, it's the battery SOC that is in control of the current flow. The charging source can't force current INTO a battery unless the voltage being introduced is way out of prescribed limits.

As for your Magnum 2800, I assume it's a 2812, quoting all the inverter specs (i.e. pure sign wave, 2800 watts, etc..) sounds impressive, but doesn't address the charging capability or capacity of the integrated charger, which is rated at 125 amps (105 amps continuous), not 140 amps.

My last comments on the subject unless I am assaulted, insulted or consulted.
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Old 10-27-2015, 09:33 AM   #38
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I think we are still whizzing on each others leg, but I actually thought that I DID understand your previous AGM comments, but must admit that I don't understand anything you've said in this quoted post.

Hungry or not, it is highly unlikely, IMHO, that a healthy 11.5v SOC battery could, or would, require or sustain 140 amps of charging current for any significant period of time.

Your alternator could be capable of supplying 240 amps and it still wouldn't make any difference to the battery that only needed, say 60 amps. I'm not sure what you meant by satisfying the "voltage regulator" to taper off the current. That comment didn't make sense to me. Neither does the comment that the Magnum does the same thing via current and voltage calculations.

In both cases, it's the battery SOC that is in control of the current flow. The charging source can't force current INTO a battery unless the voltage being introduced is way out of prescribed limits.

As for your Magnum 2800, I assume it's a 2812, quoting all the inverter specs (i.e. pure sign wave, 2800 watts, etc..) sounds impressive, but doesn't address the charging capability or capacity of the integrated charger, which is rated at 125 amps (105 amps continuous), not 140 amps.

My last comments on the subject unless I am assaulted, insulted or consulted.
Too much garbage and belly bumping for me. Good by. Happy trails.
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Old 10-27-2015, 11:19 PM   #39
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Get one of these.

http://www.amazon.com/Blue-Sea-Syste.../dp/B000OTIPDQ
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:28 PM   #40
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Charging relay

Thanks for the link- never heard of it before.
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Old 10-28-2015, 01:41 PM   #41
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Well, I for one appreciate the "history lessons". Gaining knowledge and understanding is always a good thing! So let's stop the bickering.

Just simple logic would suggest that all coaches would charge both the chassis batteries and the house batteries while driving. If that's not happening then it would imply something needs fixing not patching.

On the other hand, when my coach is on shore power the chassis batteries are NOT being charged, so where's the logic in that? That's why I use a Battery Tender.
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Old 10-28-2015, 09:55 PM   #42
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Well, I for one appreciate the "history lessons". Gaining knowledge and understanding is always a good thing! So let's stop the bickering.

Just simple logic would suggest that all coaches would charge both the chassis batteries and the house batteries while driving. If that's not happening then it would imply something needs fixing not patching.

On the other hand, when my coach is on shore power the chassis batteries are NOT being charged, so where's the logic in that? That's why I use a Battery Tender.
It's a known fact that Winnebago was one of the foot draggers in providing that feature. All you have to do is give us the year of your coach and some of us can tell you if your coach has a failure or if it was designed with that obvious deficiency.
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