converters and/or inverters and/or solar?

[kyrv]

Hi - new member, future full-timer, doing mad research trying to get my ducks in a row. I've read some great guides out there but I am still confused about the relationship between:

converters
inverters
solar panels

Probably because I'm a noob, but have read a lengthy power guide (3 times) and the implication I got was that if you get an inverter with a 3 step charger you wouldn't use a converter. The guide continued saying solar panels worked with converters. I'm hoping that's not the case and he was just assuming a non-complete noob reading it?

I want to use an inverter and solar panels (only generators as needed), can I do that?

Side question, the article also said you can't run AC with an inverter so does a fantastic fan work sufficiently for boondocking, or what do people do?

Thanks in advance!

[FlyingDiver]

Converters are really chargers. They convert 120V to 12V to charge your batteries.

Small inverters are just that, inverters. They invert 12V DC to 120V AC.

Most larger inverters are combination inverter/converter units. When on shore power (or generator), they produce 12V to charge your batteries. When no external power, they produce 120V. All inverters draw on your batteries to produce the power, and will eventually drain then.

Solar panels can be used with any of the above. They will have their own charge controller that steps down the solar voltage (usually in the 30-50V range, depending on number of panels) to charging voltage (14V or so). So they'll charge your batteries, allowing your inverter to generate 120V. And to use 12V loads longer between generator runs. If you have enough panels, and control your power consumption, solar will top up your batteries every day, so no using the generator at all.

[kyrv]

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver

Converters are really chargers. They convert 120V to 12V to charge your batteries.

Small inverters are just that, inverters. They invert 12V DC to 120V AC.

Most larger inverters are combination inverter/converter units. When on shore power (or generator), they produce 12V to charge your batteries. When no external power, they produce 120V. All inverters draw on your batteries to produce the power, and will eventually drain then.

Solar panels can be used with any of the above. They will have their own charge controller that steps down the solar voltage (usually in the 30-50V range, depending on number of panels) to charging voltage (14V or so). So they'll charge your batteries, allowing your inverter to generate 120V. And to use 12V loads longer between generator runs. If you have enough panels, and control your power consumption, solar will top up your batteries every day, so no using the generator at all.

Thank you!

So my inverter would replace the converter, and then the solar panels would have a charge controller as well, so I would have 1 inverter and 1 charge controller?

Thanks again that's what I was hoping!

[FlyingDiver]

Originally Posted by kyrv

Thank you!

So my inverter would replace the converter, and then the solar panels would have a charge controller as well, so I would have 1 inverter and 1 charge controller?

Thanks again that's what I was hoping!

If you get the right kind of inverter with integrated charger/controller.

Depending on what you plan to use the inverter for, it might be more cost efficient to get a smaller inverter and keep your existing converter.

[DawnAndChris]

Hi. Some people just helped me out with similar questions. Here are a few articles that you might like to read. Hope it helps

RV Electrical Systems

Welcome to Bob & Mary's RV Site

RV Electric

will find this info

[jesilvas]

Like they said, you'd have a combination inverter/converter. Two in one.
And don't forget a good battery bank.

[kyrv]

I plan to not use the fridge, and probably not the microwave. Computer, monitor, and tv, although I'm thinking of getting a 12v tv, though if the rv comes with a decent tv, maybe an unncessary expense. Oh, how could I forget, doh! I use a c-pap machine so that has to run all night, this is electric but I was thinking of asking if it can be made into 12v, if that's possible or even worth it. Thanks.

Originally Posted by FlyingDiver

If you get the right kind of inverter with integrated charger/controller.

Depending on what you plan to use the inverter for, it might be more cost efficient to get a smaller inverter and keep your existing converter.

[kyrv]

Oh you are new also! Thanks, bookmarked your page and the links, good stuff thanks. Jesilvas - yep definitely near the top of my to do list is making sure I've got as much battery power as will fit. From Dawn and Chris: "We got four 6 volt Golf Cart batteries with 230 Amp Hours each" Wow I'd omg love to be able to have that much!!

Originally Posted by DawnAndChris

Hi. Some people just helped me out with similar questions. Here are a few articles that you might like to read. Hope it helps

RV Electrical Systems

Welcome to Bob & Mary's RV Site

RV Electric

will find this info

[Wanderman]

I can understand the confusion!

At least you are doing the research BEFORE you buy and install. That's a great way to do things.

I wrote a 6(!) part article about the entire solar process. You can see it here:

WanderMan: A Better Solar Charging Mouse Trap.PART 1

I've also got a short article about inverters, chargers and converters (oh my!) here:

WanderMan: Converter, Inverter, Charger - What's What And Why?

That may help a bit.

Go slow, make decisions based upon your own needs and wants and you'll be OK.

Rich "The Wanderman"

[elkhornsun]

The converter is also a charger. Inverter is usually completely separate piece of gear.
The converter takes the 110v AC current external to the RV and converts it to 12v for the lights and appliances that are designed to run on 12v power. The converter has a charger sub-component that will provide 2-stage or sometimes 3-stage charging of the house batteries.

The inverter is designed to convert the 12v DC from the RV's batteries and convert it to 110v AC for devices that require 110v AC to operate - like a laptop for example. There is a loss of power in the conversion process from DC to AC and from 12v to 110v so at least 10% of the power from the batteries is lost along the way.

With solar you have a third way to charge the RV's batteries (besides the engine's alternator and the 110v converter-charge unit) without resorting to a generator. The batteries cannot accept more than 14.5 volts when charging and so the charge controller is a way to not simply clip the voltage from a higher output solar panel or panels but to instead increase the current level to the batteries. More of the output from the panels is used to charge the house batteries and so they should reach full charge sooner.

The solar charge controller is wired in parallel to the 110AC charger's DC output and that from the alternator to feed the house batteries together.

Best book about this is the one by the Moellers - The Complete Book of Boondock RVing. Outstanding value at $11.32 for the book.

Another book that is excellent is the "Solar Electricity Handbook" by Michael Boxwell.

Both are superior in every regard to anything you will find on the Web. Where various websites can help is in the installation process. There is a lot to be said for buying a complete kit like the ones sold by Amsolar.com as it will save time and money in the long run.

[Davdeb1]

Originally Posted by kyrv

Hi - new member, future full-timer, doing mad research trying to get my ducks in a row. I've read some great guides out there but I am still confused about the relationship between:

converters
inverters
solar panels

Probably because I'm a noob, but have read a lengthy power guide (3 times) and the implication I got was that if you get an inverter with a 3 step charger you wouldn't use a converter. The guide continued saying solar panels worked with converters. I'm hoping that's not the case and he was just assuming a non-complete noob reading it?

I want to use an inverter and solar panels (only generators as needed), can I do that?

Side question, the article also said you can't run AC with an inverter so does a fantastic fan work sufficiently for boondocking, or what do people do?

Thanks in advance!

Hold EVERYTHING! I will be full timing this fall. I've decided we want to boondock as much as possible. I read everything on here I could find. I read blogs like Handy Bob's' and everyone else mentioned. Here is what I found......

You can jump right in, and buy inverters with chargers, solar panels, controllers, sub panels, more wiring, and the list goes on.

Before you do these things, you have to ask yourself some questions. Am I going to boondock? How much am I going to do this? When I asked myself the questions' I found that my opportunities were going to be limited. I will boondock maybe 4 1/2 months a year when out west in the winter.
I added up the cost of an inverter, wiring, solar panels, more wiring, charge controller, and so on. Since I'm on oxygen 24/7, I would have to pay to have all this done. We are talking upwards of $5000. I have a great converter, that puts out 55 amps to charge. I can buy an attachment that will allow it to be a 3 stage charger and desulfater. I will run 2 LED TVS', charge 2 pads, and a cell phone. All I really need is 3 plug in 300w inverters, and a couple more 12 volt power points. This will run me about 2-300 dollars. I already have a paid for 7500 watt generator built into my rv. It will cost about $2 an hour to run. I should be able tho run it about 4 hours a day when boondocking.

Now, this is my solution, and it may not work for everyone. My point being, ask yourself the questions. If you are going to spend more than half your time, plugged in and driving, just get good batteries, and a good battery minder, Trimetric(sp)?

[Mknight]

Well said Dave

[Groovy]

I found the distinction between inverters and converters very confusing at first too.

In a nutshell, a converter is used when you are plugged into shore power to convert AC power to DC. That way you don't run down your batteries operating your DC appliances when you are plugged in.

An inverter is used when you are not plugged into shore power to convert DC power to AC so you can operate your AC appliances.

Inverter/chargers do both.

A solar installation has two components: (1) solar panel and charge controller to charge the batteries and (2) inverter to provide AC power to appliances that run on 110. These two components are independent of each other.

You can't run air conditioning from an inverter. You need a generator for that. The Yamaha 2400i is able to run our 15000 btu unit just fine. We use it 3-10 times per year.

Fans are great, but we find when the trailer gets to 90 degrees inside it is time to turn on the air conditioning.

We have lots of info about solar power on our website. You might find our RV Solar Power tutorial series to be useful. It starts here:

Understanding the Basics of RV / Boat Solar Power

You might also enjoy a detailed description of the installations we did on two different trailers:

RV Solar Panel Installation

[FlyingDiver]

Originally Posted by Groovy

You can't run air conditioning from an inverter. You need a generator for that. The Yamaha 2400i is able to run our 15000 btu unit just fine. We use it 3-10 times per year.

Well, you could, but it would take a very large inverter and lots of batteries. Several of the Prevost conversion shops do this, with multiple 4KW inverters, huge battery banks, and multiple engine-driven alternators so that the ACs run while traveling.