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12-26-2024, 06:50 AM
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#15
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Senior Member
Commercial Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 828
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Fridge Defend Saves Money
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljourner
Hi Paul!
I’ve been thinking for some time to purchase one of your units. NOT having purchased a unit might turn out to be a costly mistake. Once I arrive at my destination I’m going to finally dive deeper into Fridge Defend. I learned my lesson - the hard way.
Funny - I’m always so careful about what I do that I foolishly thought I didn’t need to protect my fridge with Fridge Defend. But here is proof that even someone who is usually careful can make an innocent, but costly, mistake. Lesson learned - and hopefully not too late.
I have a question for you, Paul, since you probably know refrigerators better than anyone! Refrigerator is now turned off. I’m leaving the northeast on Friday heading south for the winter. I will leave it off until I’m way south of freezing temperatures.
Once I arrive in warmer climates - do you see any danger to turning my refrigerator back on? Anything to do besides pushing a button? Propane or electric, or does it not matter?
I realize it might work, or not, but it’s the danger factor that concerns me, particularly the risk of fire.
If something was damaged due to my carelessness, what part would have been damaged and is it replaceable?
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" Funny - I’m always so careful about what I do that I foolishly thought I didn’t need to protect my fridge with Fridge Defend. But here is proof that even someone who is usually careful can make an innocent, but costly, mistake. Lesson learned - and hopefully not too late"
It is misinformation that some folks that claim to be experts on absorption refrigeration manipulate. The truth is that the boiler is the heart of the absorption fridge, and if you protect it from overheating the fridge will die of old age rather than the most common cause, overheating.
" Once I arrive in warmer climates - do you see any danger to turning my refrigerator back on? Anything to do besides pushing a button? Propane or electric, or does it not matter?"
Chances are that you have no problem with your fridge, but:
My suggestion is if you turn on the fridge, have a hose and water supply handy to deal with a potential rupture of the cooling unit. My policy is the Murphy is my copilot, and he is going to fly me into a mountain if he can, do not let him  Better safe than sorry, if you are prepared for a cooling unit rupture, then it may be less likely to happen
" If something was damaged due to my carelessness, what part would have been damaged and is it replaceable?"
Good question, the damage is to the rust inhibitor in the cooling unit. Overheating of the boiler damages the inhibitor, then the inhibitor cannot inhibit the rust and the result is the cooling unit wall becomes thin and ruptures. The Fridge Defend solves this problem and is also the best fire prevention because it prevents run away temperatures in the boiler that also result in ruptures due to thermal stress. Ask any boiler operator that understands how boilers operate.
Let us know how things go, the entire iRV2 community is here to help
Paul and Mao
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12-26-2024, 09:08 AM
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#16
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend
" Funny - I’m always so careful about what I do that I foolishly thought I didn’t need to protect my fridge with Fridge Defend. But here is proof that even someone who is usually careful can make an innocent, but costly, mistake. Lesson learned - and hopefully not too late"
It is misinformation that some folks that claim to be experts on absorption refrigeration manipulate. The truth is that the boiler is the heart of the absorption fridge, and if you protect it from overheating the fridge will die of old age rather than the most common cause, overheating.
" Once I arrive in warmer climates - do you see any danger to turning my refrigerator back on? Anything to do besides pushing a button? Propane or electric, or does it not matter?"
Chances are that you have no problem with your fridge, but:
My suggestion is if you turn on the fridge, have a hose and water supply handy to deal with a potential rupture of the cooling unit. My policy is the Murphy is my copilot, and he is going to fly me into a mountain if he can, do not let him  Better safe than sorry, if you are prepared for a cooling unit rupture, then it may be less likely to happen
" If something was damaged due to my carelessness, what part would have been damaged and is it replaceable?"
Good question, the damage is to the rust inhibitor in the cooling unit. Overheating of the boiler damages the inhibitor, then the inhibitor cannot inhibit the rust and the result is the cooling unit wall becomes thin and ruptures. The Fridge Defend solves this problem and is also the best fire prevention because it prevents run away temperatures in the boiler that also result in ruptures due to thermal stress. Ask any boiler operator that understands how boilers operate.
Let us know how things go, the entire iRV2 community is here to help
Paul and Mao
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Thank you, Paul, for the kindness of your reply. I appreciate your commitment to safety and education. I really had been thinking of buying one of your units for quite some time. This has pushed me over the edge.
I think this is an important thread for many reasons, besides my own personal needs. I can betcha there are people reading this thread who never considered what happens when they use their fridge in freezing temps. Everyone talks about the plumbing system. But I’ve never read anything about the refrigeration system, until I thought about water and ammonia solutions and cold temperatures - possibly too late. Hope this has been a PS message for others traveling in cold weather to warmer climates.
Ok - so the biggest problem I might face is not fire but a rupture - I’m assuming then spewing ammonia/water all over my camper? That sounds pretty noxious to me.
If that were to occur - run out as fast as I can or start spraying the insides of my camper with water? What a mess….
If everything starts up, no ruptures, and the fridge gets cold, do I need to worry about a possible rupture while sleeping or running down the road?
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-27-2024, 07:50 AM
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#17
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Senior Member
Commercial Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 828
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Consiquence of Dometic or Norcold Fridge Failure
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljourner
Thank you, Paul, for the kindness of your reply. I appreciate your commitment to safety and education. I really had been thinking of buying one of your units for quite some time. This has pushed me over the edge.
I think this is an important thread for many reasons, besides my own personal needs. I can betcha there are people reading this thread who never considered what happens when they use their fridge in freezing temps. Everyone talks about the plumbing system. But I’ve never read anything about the refrigeration system, until I thought about water and ammonia solutions and cold temperatures - possibly too late. Hope this has been a PS message for others traveling in cold weather to warmer climates.
Ok - so the biggest problem I might face is not fire but a rupture - I’m assuming then spewing ammonia/water all over my camper? That sounds pretty noxious to me.
If that were to occur - run out as fast as I can or start spraying the insides of my camper with water? What a mess….
If everything starts up, no ruptures, and the fridge gets cold, do I need to worry about a possible rupture while sleeping or running down the road?
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Happy end of 2024 Souljourner, as you can see I like to address direct quotes:
" I think this is an important thread for many reasons, besides my own personal needs. I can betcha there are people reading this thread who never considered what happens when they use their fridge in freezing temps"
Combining your statement with education, if you go to our home page ARPRV dot COM, you will see a fishbone diagram like above. It shows the cause and effect of boiler overheating. Please see this thread:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/mot...ml#post6709064
" Ok - so the biggest problem I might face is not fire but a rupture - I’m assuming then spewing ammonia/water all over my camper? That sounds pretty noxious to me.
If that were to occur - run out as fast as I can or start spraying the insides of my camper with water? What a mess…."
The truth is that a rupture of the cooling unit results in fire. And, chances are that if the fridge is damaged, this event will occur within the first 45 minutes of starting the fridge. That is how long it takes for the fridge to go from ambient temperatures to the boiler being at operating temperature (~ 400 degF).
The rupture and possible resulting fire would be in back of the fridge, not in the living space. I have a customer that is also a fire fighter, he was connecting his power and water to the utilities at a campground. He had started his fridge when he first arrived. He had his water connected and was plugging in the shore power when he heard a pop behind him. He was standing outside the RV and directly below the access door to the fridge. He viewed a flame coming out the vent door, he had a quick disconnect on his water. He disconnected his water and shot it into the fridge vent door.
No damage to the RV occurred, just the fridge. So, just have a hose ready and take the cover to the fridge access door off. Get a chair and a snack with beverage, and hang out while your fridge starts as a precaution.
I am promoting safety, one of the comments folks like to use is that I am trying to scare people. A good friend was hit Christmas day by a drunk driver that did not stop at a 4-way stop. Telling my wife to look at 4-way stops for people that are not going to stop is protecting her or scaring her? Or maybe both? If in the end it saves her life, I do not care which one it is
Have a Safe and Happy New Year, Paul and Mao
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12-27-2024, 10:51 AM
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#18
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend
Happy end of 2024 Souljourner, as you can see I like to address direct quotes:
" I think this is an important thread for many reasons, besides my own personal needs. I can betcha there are people reading this thread who never considered what happens when they use their fridge in freezing temps"
Combining your statement with education, if you go to our home page ARPRV dot COM, you will see a fishbone diagram like above. It shows the cause and effect of boiler overheating. Please see this thread:
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f258/mot...ml#post6709064
" Ok - so the biggest problem I might face is not fire but a rupture - I’m assuming then spewing ammonia/water all over my camper? That sounds pretty noxious to me.
If that were to occur - run out as fast as I can or start spraying the insides of my camper with water? What a mess…."
The truth is that a rupture of the cooling unit results in fire. And, chances are that if the fridge is damaged, this event will occur within the first 45 minutes of starting the fridge. That is how long it takes for the fridge to go from ambient temperatures to the boiler being at operating temperature (~ 400 degF).
The rupture and possible resulting fire would be in back of the fridge, not in the living space. I have a customer that is also a fire fighter, he was connecting his power and water to the utilities at a campground. He had started his fridge when he first arrived. He had his water connected and was plugging in the shore power when he heard a pop behind him. He was standing outside the RV and directly below the access door to the fridge. He viewed a flame coming out the vent door, he had a quick disconnect on his water. He disconnected his water and shot it into the fridge vent door.
No damage to the RV occurred, just the fridge. So, just have a hose ready and take the cover to the fridge access door off. Get a chair and a snack with beverage, and hang out while your fridge starts as a precaution.
I am promoting safety, one of the comments folks like to use is that I am trying to scare people. A good friend was hit Christmas day by a drunk driver that did not stop at a 4-way stop. Telling my wife to look at 4-way stops for people that are not going to stop is protecting her or scaring her? Or maybe both? If in the end it saves her life, I do not care which one it is
Have a Safe and Happy New Year, Paul and Mao
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Oiy….
Not scaring me. Warning me. I was smart enough to understand I have a potentially dangerous situation and I am most grateful for your input. I appreciate your comments and your excellent delivery and communication skills. I like your style.
Your comments haven’t scared me. They have prepared me. I think when I set up my lawn chair and snacks and a hose connected to water I’ll save the adult beverage for afterwards. One way or another I’m going to need it.
I am literally packed and ready to roll down my driveway for points south. All of my perishables are packed in coolers with ice and they can stay that way for my 5 day travels. I’ll be Cracker Barreling it for the next two nights so I’ll definitely leave the fridge off until I arrive at a campground with full hookups.
YOU haven’t scared me but the situation and the ensuing risk of fire has me more than a little bit concerned.
My limited google research seems to show that an ammonia-water mix as used in an absorption fridge freezes at way below zero temperatures. How likely am I to have a problem?
Any alternative ways to test the potential for fire other than waiting to see if flames come out the back of my RV? Fridge is in the rear, btw.
If an hour goes by and my fridge is happily cooling without a fireworks display, can I go to sleep peacefully knowing all is well?
And…. How quickly do you ship out Fridge Defend units? If I installed a unit before I turn on the fridge will that shut things down if I have a problem?
That sounds like a better solution than the hose, lawn chair, and snack option.
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-27-2024, 08:26 PM
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#19
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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More questions. I’m on a long multi-day road trip with nothing to do but think!
Here’s my latest question as I’m anticipating arriving at my destination and starting my fridge back up.
If my fridge was on and plugged into shore power and outside temperatures started to decrease to a level less than the refrigerator temperature setting (less than 40 degrees) and the inside of the refrigerator temperatures started to decrease as a result - would the refrigerator still call for the boiler to go on - even if lower temperatures were not needed? Or would it have remained off since the refrigerator was maintaining temperatures lower than the temperature setting?
I’m trying to take a crash course in how absorption refrigerators work to figure out my chances of fire when I start it back up again.
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-27-2024, 08:51 PM
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#20
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 28,342
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If the food compartment temp being sensed by the thermistor didn't increase calling for a cooling cycle then the heat source ---electric or propane---would not have come on as no heating was called for
__________________
I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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12-27-2024, 09:00 PM
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#21
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
If the food compartment temp being sensed by the thermistor didn't increase calling for a cooling cycle then the heat source ---electric or propane---would not have come on as no heating was called for
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Best news I’ve received all day! The fridge and freezer were so cold that food was frozen! I’m starting to think that maybe I won’t have fireworks coming out of the back end when I turn it back on.
OB - when I start it back up when I arrive at my warmer destination and the fridge has been totally thawed - any preference of doing so using shore power or propane, or does it not matter?
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-28-2024, 08:39 AM
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#22
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Senior Member
Commercial Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 828
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Fridge damage and shipping
Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljourner
Oiy….
Not scaring me. Warning me. I was smart enough to understand I have a potentially dangerous situation and I am most grateful for your input. I appreciate your comments and your excellent delivery and communication skills. I like your style.
Your comments haven’t scared me. They have prepared me. I think when I set up my lawn chair and snacks and a hose connected to water I’ll save the adult beverage for afterwards. One way or another I’m going to need it.
I am literally packed and ready to roll down my driveway for points south. All of my perishables are packed in coolers with ice and they can stay that way for my 5 day travels. I’ll be Cracker Barreling it for the next two nights so I’ll definitely leave the fridge off until I arrive at a campground with full hookups.
YOU haven’t scared me but the situation and the ensuing risk of fire has me more than a little bit concerned.
My limited google research seems to show that an ammonia-water mix as used in an absorption fridge freezes at way below zero temperatures. How likely am I to have a problem?
Any alternative ways to test the potential for fire other than waiting to see if flames come out the back of my RV? Fridge is in the rear, btw.
If an hour goes by and my fridge is happily cooling without a fireworks display, can I go to sleep peacefully knowing all is well?
And…. How quickly do you ship out Fridge Defend units? If I installed a unit before I turn on the fridge will that shut things down if I have a problem?
That sounds like a better solution than the hose, lawn chair, and snack option. 
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I would suggest putting the Fridge Defend on before starting the fridge.
Here is why:
You can read the boiler temperature with the Fridge Defend. Thus you will have an idea if the boiler is starting correctly and the refrigeration process is initiating. See this video for the curves:
We ship ordinary the day we get the order. We send the product via USPS Priority Mail so you will get the package in about 3 days from when you order depending where you are. We are at our location near the USA/Mexico boarder in the west. So for example, if you are in AZ you could get the package in 2 days.
Old-Biscuit is absolute correct, as I mentioned but did not elaborate on, chances are there is not damage to the fridge due to the cold weather during the time you were trying to use it. But, there is a lot of speculation on our behalf, you would know best as you were there
Let us know if we answered all your questions?
Happy New Year, Paul and Mao
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12-28-2024, 10:09 AM
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#23
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend
I would suggest putting the Fridge Defend on before starting the fridge.
Here is why:
You can read the boiler temperature with the Fridge Defend. Thus you will have an idea if the boiler is starting correctly and the refrigeration process is initiating. See this video for the curves:
We ship ordinary the day we get the order. We send the product via USPS Priority Mail so you will get the package in about 3 days from when you order depending where you are. We are at our location near the USA/Mexico boarder in the west. So for example, if you are in AZ you could get the package in 2 days.
Old-Biscuit is absolute correct, as I mentioned but did not elaborate on, chances are there is not damage to the fridge due to the cold weather during the time you were trying to use it. But, there is a lot of speculation on our behalf, you would know best as you were there
Let us know if we answered all your questions?
Happy New Year, Paul and Mao
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Great answers from both you and OB. I’m feeling a bit reassured. I’m about to head out on the road. I’ll check out this info at my next stop.
Regard the fridgedefend - besides reading the boiler temp confirming it will shut things down before having a traumatic event, even if a fridge is already compromised?
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-28-2024, 12:43 PM
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#24
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,895
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljourner
Regard the fridgedefend - besides reading the boiler temp confirming it will shut things down before having a traumatic event, even if a fridge is already compromised?
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Yes. If you think about it you'll realize that every time the Fridge Defend shuts a fridge down it's because it's compromised. Whether the coolant and hydrogen has leaked out is a different question but that's not a lot of volume in the tubes. So if it has leaked already, it's likely the gas has dispersed.
Before starting the fridge pull the lower vent cover off and look for any yellowish residue, usually near the metal "stack". If there is any, then DO NOT turn the fridge on. That is what can come out of the tubes during a rupture.
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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12-28-2024, 03:59 PM
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#25
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: NJ
Posts: 726
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I don't know about you guys, but I usually leave my absorption fridge off for the winter. Its over 8 years old and still works like a champ from spring thru fall. While I think the defend unit is a good investment, if only for peace of mind, We haven't installed one, at this point.
Safe travels and all the best for the upcomming New Year.
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12-28-2024, 04:43 PM
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#26
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2023
Posts: 780
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^^Too late now!! After this thread started, couple days ago, they are sold out.
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12-28-2024, 09:30 PM
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#27
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 28,342
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljourner
Great answers from both you and OB. I’m feeling a bit reassured. I’m about to head out on the road. I’ll check out this info at my next stop.
Regard the fridgedefend - besides reading the boiler temp confirming it will shut things down before having a traumatic event, even if a fridge is already compromised?
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Propane..........
After a visual inspection of cooling unit (especially around the burner area) and no signs of any yellowish residue turn fridge on propane
The excess heat generated and not transferred to boiler will warm up backside of fridge
Turn it on propane....run for few minutes/turn it off/have a look for any signs then turn back on for few hours
Then feel back wall of freezer......should be cool to the touch
If cool.....run the fridge on which ever heat source you want...electric or propane
IF...IF you see any signs of a leak/turn it off/unplug the fridge AC cord and remove the DC Fuse for fridge
*Yellowish residue is sodium chromate (rust inhibitor in the coolant)
IT IS TOXIC..no blowing it with compressed air.....work it wet with gloves and mask
__________________
I took my Medication today. HAVE YOU?
Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
US NAVY---USS Decatur DDG-31
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12-29-2024, 08:18 AM
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#28
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Senior Member
Commercial Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 828
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How to Prevent Dometic or Norcold form bing Compromised
Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR
Yes. If you think about it you'll realize that every time the Fridge Defend shuts a fridge down it's because it's compromised. Whether the coolant and hydrogen has leaked out is a different question but that's not a lot of volume in the tubes. So if it has leaked already, it's likely the gas has dispersed.
Before starting the fridge pull the lower vent cover off and look for any yellowish residue, usually near the metal "stack". If there is any, then DO NOT turn the fridge on. That is what can come out of the tubes during a rupture.
Ray
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Hi Ray, I want to make a slight correction:
The Fridge Defend prevents the fridge from being compromised.
Here is the proof, if the water in the system does not boil, then no damage occurs to the fridge:
Hope this helps, Paul
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