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12-23-2024, 11:08 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Did I break my Fridge?
I have an absorption fridge. Not thinking, I’ve had it turned on for the past month, hooked into electricity, with a few staples inside the fridge and freezer. My travel trailer has not been heated.
The last two days temperatures have been between minus zero and mid-teens. I suddenly realized that my fridge is trying to maintain temps around 40 degrees in an environment that is much colder than that.
Given those conditions, what will the absorption fridge do? Think I broke something by leaving it running in such cold temperatures?
I’m leaving Thursday on a 1000 mile so I’d love to know it will work just fine.
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2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
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12-24-2024, 06:34 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: SW PA
Posts: 510
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Once the refer reaches the set temperature the cooling system shuts off until the temperature rises above the set point. The refrigerator does not cycle to attempt to raise the temperature to the set point.
Some of the absorption refers will turn on the compartment light below a certain temp to to achieve minimum cycle times. Your manual will explain how this works.
Your refrigerator should have survived the cold snap will no ill effects.
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2021 Newmar Bay Star 3401
Toad - 2019 Jeep Cherokee Trailhawk
2017.5 Forester 3051 -7/14/2020
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12-24-2024, 09:18 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Prospect, KY
Posts: 2,012
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the only problem I know of is the ice maker water line. mine is always on regardless of the temp. and no problems with the heat or cold.
__________________
Kevan & Rebecca(BTW) 2009 Fleetwood PaceArrow 38P 8.1 on W24 chassis w/air bags, 1990 Goldwing 1500, 2010 Jeep Liberty, RVM#197, FMCA#F413587, FMA#7985, WCMC, 2 dogs Cody and Sadie
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12-24-2024, 09:47 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,902
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If it's a Norcold then there is a kit that can be added to keep part of the tubing at the rear from freezing up with certain models.
If it's a Dometic, some have a "low ambient" switch. I read all that switch does is turn on the inside light to provide a bit of heat in the fridge to keep the coolant circulating.
We have a JC Refrigeration cooling unit ("Amish") on our Norcold 1210 and I asked them this question:
Subject: Cold weather limits for your gas/electric cooling units?
We have your gas/electric cooling unit on our Norcold 1210. It works great however the outside temps are starting to drop here in Ohio. We've used the original cooling unit down to 20 F without problems. Will you please let me know what the cold temp operating limits are for your cooling unit?
I know Norcold has a Cold Weather Kit that uses a thermostatic switch and a heating strip to prevent freezing up in lower temps. Does your cooling unit need anything like that? If so, can you recommend one?
Their reply:
Our system will not have a problem with cold temperatures down to 0 degrees if it is running on gas. The LP burner will create enough heat to keep the system from freezing.
So maybe try switching your fridge to propane if it's currently running on electricity.
It won't help you now but installing a device called the ARP Fridge Defend will help alleviate any such concerns. It monitors the fridge boiler temperature continuously and will shut the fridge down if it starts to overheat for any reason.
Good luck,
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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12-24-2024, 12:48 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR
If it's a Norcold then there is a kit that can be added to keep part of the tubing at the rear from freezing up with certain models.
If it's a Dometic, some have a "low ambient" switch. I read all that switch does is turn on the inside light to provide a bit of heat in the fridge to keep the coolant circulating.
We have a JC Refrigeration cooling unit ("Amish") on our Norcold 1210 and I asked them this question:
Subject: Cold weather limits for your gas/electric cooling units?
We have your gas/electric cooling unit on our Norcold 1210. It works great however the outside temps are starting to drop here in Ohio. We've used the original cooling unit down to 20 F without problems. Will you please let me know what the cold temp operating limits are for your cooling unit?
I know Norcold has a Cold Weather Kit that uses a thermostatic switch and a heating strip to prevent freezing up in lower temps. Does your cooling unit need anything like that? If so, can you recommend one?
Their reply:
Our system will not have a problem with cold temperatures down to 0 degrees if it is running on gas. The LP burner will create enough heat to keep the system from freezing.
So maybe try switching your fridge to propane if it's currently running on electricity.
It won't help you now but installing a device called the ARP Fridge Defend will help alleviate any such concerns. It monitors the fridge boiler temperature continuously and will shut the fridge down if it starts to overheat for any reason.
Good luck,
Ray
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Thank you, Ray, for taking the time to share that. It makes sense - that when on propane heat is being generated.
I know Fridge Defend works to prevent overheating. Is there a danger of overheating when ambient temps are too cold?
Question for someone - I understand how an absorption fridge works when on propane. But how is the cold generated when using shore power?
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-24-2024, 01:45 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2023
Posts: 785
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It just uses electricity to heat an element, causing the same reaction as heating with propane, both using a heat source to create cooling.
Wished I could say no problem! It may be okay, maybe not okay, maybe cause a problem sometime later???
Let us know, when you find out.
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12-24-2024, 01:55 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 6,902
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Souljourner
Thank you, Ray, for taking the time to share that. It makes sense - that when on propane heat is being generated.
I know Fridge Defend works to prevent overheating. Is there a danger of overheating when ambient temps are too cold?
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Boiler overheating occurs when the flow of coolant stops. If the coolant is frozen then it cannot flow. Will heating the boiler allow the system to self-unfreeze OR keep the damage minimized because there is not enough heat generated overtemp? Sorry, I have no idea but I doubt it would unfreeze.
I've read that some people partially block the lower vent in sub-freezing conditions to try and trap heat in the back but I have no idea how effective that is.
Perhaps Paul from ARP will chime in.
Ray
__________________
2020 Forest River Georgetown GT5 34H5
2020 Equinox Premier AWD 2.0L/9-speed
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12-24-2024, 02:20 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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I’m usually aware of the differences between S&B systems and those in my RV and prudent about their use. In all honesty - I had forgotten that I had my fridge plugged in - until I went out to it in preparation for Thursday’s travels - and realized the inside temp of my RV was 22 degrees - and the fridge, in theory, should have been about 40 degrees. I realized than that I had no idea how the fridge would respond to those conditions, or even if the liquid element would freeze, or what kept it heated without propane. Sometimes you just don’t know what you don’t know until faced with something for the first time.
Yes - I can see how a heating element with frozen liquid could cause a potentially dangerous problem. Curious - I just did a quick search and discovered that ammonia freezes at -107.9 degrees F - and it wasn’t THAT cold! But I also discovered in an absorption fridge the ammonia is mixed with water - and the water impacts the freezing point.
I dug a little deeper and discovered that the ammonia-water mixture used in an absorption fridge will freeze at temps between -22 and -58 F, the difference depending on the ration of water to ammonia. But I’m feeling that even at temps of 0 degrees I shouldn’t have a problem.
Of course, I don’t want to test that theory, and I will do things differently in the future. But nice to know that most likely I won’t have a problem, something I’m hoping to confirm when I hit the road later on this week.
You really do learn something new every day!
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2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-24-2024, 05:52 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2023
Posts: 785
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@Souljourner
Going off your research, my theory is; since there was no heat in camper, the fridge just shut down, when fridge dropped below about 35 degrees. If shut down, and temp dropped to 0, no matter, as the heating element is shut off.
Think your GTG
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12-24-2024, 10:52 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 28,351
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Propane transfers heat to flue baffle which radiates the heat to the boiler section
Electric heater element transfers heat to boiler section via conductivity
Both heat sources do same thing.........heat the ammonia into a hot vapor that is then condensed into a liquid which interacts with the hydrogen gas and absorbs the heat from freezer section and then from food compartment
Thermistor in the food compartment senses the FIN temp and transfer that info via changes in resistance to the circuit board
Heat cycles are based on temperature
IF...if food compartment temp doesn't change once temp setting is reached then no call for heating cycles
Ambient air temps below 20*F can cause the 'weak solution' (water) to freeze
Heat (Propane or Electric) can overheat the boiler IF turned on and left on due to no change in thermistor sensing
Turning on........then off after a couple minutes and repeated will allow heat to thaw the weak solution if frozen
AS mentioned....best to operate fridge on propane when ambient temps are going to be below 32*F for any extended periods
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Dodge 3500 w/Tractor Motor
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12-25-2024, 03:10 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old-Biscuit
Propane transfers heat to flue baffle which radiates the heat to the boiler section
Electric heater element transfers heat to boiler section via conductivity
Both heat sources do same thing.........heat the ammonia into a hot vapor that is then condensed into a liquid which interacts with the hydrogen gas and absorbs the heat from freezer section and then from food compartment
Thermistor in the food compartment senses the FIN temp and transfer that info via changes in resistance to the circuit board
Heat cycles are based on temperature
IF...if food compartment temp doesn't change once temp setting is reached then no call for heating cycles
Ambient air temps below 20*F can cause the 'weak solution' (water) to freeze
Heat (Propane or Electric) can overheat the boiler IF turned on and left on dueto no change in thermistor sensing
Turning on........then off after a couple minutes and repeated will allow heat to thaw the weak solution if frozen
AS mentioned....best to operate fridge on propane when ambient temps are going to be below 32*F for any extended periods
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OB!! How are you?? Great hearing from you! I was hoping you would respond!
So… since I did NOT have the fridge on propane, and outside temp was 0 degrees, inside temp was 22, what is the chance I did damage and what should I look for?
How can I tell if the solution has frozen?
Given what I did - any increased chance for fire as I head into my trip this week?
Anything to do now, other than wait and see?
Thanks, OB! Merry Christmas.
__________________
2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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12-25-2024, 05:13 AM
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#12
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Member
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: Clermont, FL
Posts: 93
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Cold weather (0 degrees) for 24 hours killed my 2006 Winnebago Voyage 38j Norcold 1210 refrigerator. It never cooled again. I now have a 2024 residential refrigerator ($367.00 From Lowe's), and it is completely insulated from the outside world, so no freezing problem. It also only use 60 watts running, so my 100Ah battery and 200 watts solar can easily keep it running when boondocking. It runs off a dedicated 1000 watt inverter that is only for the refrigerator.
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12-25-2024, 08:20 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Commercial Member
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Montana
Posts: 828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NXR
Boiler overheating occurs when the flow of coolant stops. If the coolant is frozen then it cannot flow. Will heating the boiler allow the system to self-unfreeze OR keep the damage minimized because there is not enough heat generated overtemp? Sorry, I have no idea but I doubt it would unfreeze.
I've read that some people partially block the lower vent in sub-freezing conditions to try and trap heat in the back but I have no idea how effective that is.
Perhaps Paul from ARP will chime in.
Ray
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Thanks Ray, yes the weak solution will freeze blocking the flow or refrigerant to the boiler.
The freezing of the weak solution is due to the fact that the weak solution is depleted of ammonia, and ammonia and water mixed are an antifreeze.
The Fridge Defend responds to the boiler overheating due to the freezing weather before the fridge can be damaged. The Fridge Defend also automatically restarts the heat source, bu the cycling of the Fridge Defend the weak solution is usually thawed out.
Also as mentioned, you need to wait until warmer weather to test the fridge to see if it is damaged or not? May be OK??
Let us know your long term results.
Merry Christmas, Paul and Mao
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12-25-2024, 08:46 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,095
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fridge Defend
Thanks Ray, yes the weak solution will freeze blocking the flow or refrigerant to the boiler.
The freezing of the weak solution is due to the fact that the weak solution is depleted of ammonia, and ammonia and water mixed are an antifreeze.
The Fridge Defend responds to the boiler overheating due to the freezing weather before the fridge can be damaged. The Fridge Defend also automatically restarts the heat source, bu the cycling of the Fridge Defend the weak solution is usually thawed out.
Let us know your long term results.
Merry Christmas, Paul and Mao
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Hi Paul!
I’ve been thinking for some time to purchase one of your units. NOT having purchased a unit might turn out to be a costly mistake. Once I arrive at my destination I’m going to finally dive deeper into Fridge Defend. I learned my lesson - the hard way.
Funny - I’m always so careful about what I do that I foolishly thought I didn’t need to protect my fridge with Fridge Defend. But here is proof that even someone who is usually careful can make an innocent, but costly, mistake. Lesson learned - and hopefully not too late.
I have a question for you, Paul, since you probably know refrigerators better than anyone! Refrigerator is now turned off. I’m leaving the northeast on Friday heading south for the winter. I will leave it off until I’m way south of freezing temperatures.
Once I arrive in warmer climates - do you see any danger to turning my refrigerator back on? Anything to do besides pushing a button? Propane or electric, or does it not matter?
I realize it might work, or not, but it’s the danger factor that concerns me, particularly the risk of fire.
If something was damaged due to my carelessness, what part would have been damaged and is it replaceable?
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2021 Forest River RPod 196 - 22' TT
Life is a daring adventure.
@Following_Breadcrumbs
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