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Old 07-21-2020, 05:59 PM   #1
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Electrical issues - really need help!

Really at an end!! Thought it was the EMS and Progressive is sending a new unit. Went to the RV store in Billings MT and got a surge guard to make sure I was protected. Plug in the surge guard, with coach unattached, all three free lights. Add coach to surge guard and 1 red light, no green so shut off breaker. Turn off all breakers in coach and turn on post breaker. Still three green. Turn on AC breaker (without AC on) and still 3 green. Turn on another breaker that has something plugged into outlet and wham!, 1 red and no green. Any breaker that has a load with cause 1 red and no green.

Turn on generator and everything works perfectly. No indications of any problem. This problem just started yesterday afternoon while we where away from the coach. Came back to no power and a EMS doing a dance, on/off. Spent this AM on the phone with Progressive (1 1/4 hrs) to no avail. EMS never showed an error. even with the on/off dance. Tried to bypass, was even worse dance! Which shouldn't happen since it was in bypass mode. Tech was stumped.

Have been on the road for 45 days with no issues (and no power changes). Been on this power post for 2 1/2 days with no issues and Progressive could not find anything wrong with incoming power.

Have no idea where to turn next except for maybe an RV electrician but in Montana, near Glacier Park? I doubt I can find anyone. And why would something go wrong mid-day when sitting in same spot? I can perhaps understand bouncing down the road and something comes loose but . . And to work perfectly well with generator?

I need to know where to look . . (and how?)

Thanks, Steve
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:10 PM   #2
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Try another power post, I suspect its a campground issue.

When you add a load on one leg it drops out. That equals bad connection in there system, not yours.
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Old 07-21-2020, 06:12 PM   #3
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Steve,

I don’t have a clue what your lights signify. But...I just had a problem at a park that might...maybe...be applicable or not.

My Energy Mgmt panel was showing 127v on one line and 105v on the second line. Power company came out and said all was normal.

I investigated. Yep...Normal voltage on pedestal...normal voltage at my surge protector...normal voltage in my distribution panel. So I wrote tech support to the company that makes my Energy Mgmt panel. He wrote back with a Eureka idea. He said to check L1 to Ground and L2 to Ground. Also check Ground to Neutral. I find out I have 9v from Ground to Neutral. The kicker is...the higher your loads..,the larger the disparity becomes.

It can happen when someone wires a receptacle past the transformer...and inadvertently switches Nuetral and Ground. Current gets fed back to the panel incorrectly and will probably do the light dance you are talking about.

When a I got home and plugged into my pedestal...everything was normal again.

Same with Generator,,,normal, normal.


I would find a different pedastle...like on a completely different transformer...and see if the problem doesn’t go away.
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Old 07-21-2020, 10:10 PM   #4
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Are all connections inside the transfer switch clean and tight?
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Old 07-22-2020, 05:23 PM   #5
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Thanks for the replies. And for a followup . . .

I believe Charlie is absolutely right. We are now in another (brand new) campground near Glacier NP and no problems with power. 50amp is working as expected so . .?

Somehow, someone has a miss wired coach. While we were gone Monday, 1 brand new coach pulled into the line of 5 sites where one had been empty and plugged into 50amp. The problems persisted until we left this morning (that coach did not leave) and now all is working.

Tech support from Progressive did not have a 'Eureka' moment (nor did I) and we never measured voltage from neutral to ground. We probably would have identified that as the problem. It sure shook the EMS apart when we tried to bypass.

So now waiting for a new EMS unit (don't want to rely on just a surge protector) and hopefully this will never happen again BUT now I know to check for negative to ground AND tell someone they have a PROBLEM - even if it is a brand new large 5th wheel!

Lesson learned and big THANK YOU to Charlie!
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Old 07-22-2020, 08:02 PM   #6
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I just want to add..the other coach could be wired correctly. The problem can be caused if one or more receptacles...in any of the pedestals fed by a particular transformer...has ground and neutral wired in reverse. If a perfectly wired coach plugs into that receptacle, it will cause backfeeding on the ground line instead of the neutral. This will cause problems with everyone that is sharing a main cabinet on that transformer.

So, it may be a mis-wired coach...but all it takes is a mis-wired pedestal receptacle.

The way you described having days of working okay...followed by problems...makes me think your fellow campers somewhere just happened to arrive and used that receptacle.
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Old 07-23-2020, 08:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C.Martin View Post
Steve,

I don’t have a clue what your lights signify. But...I just had a problem at a park that might...maybe...be applicable or not.

My Energy Mgmt panel was showing 127v on one line and 105v on the second line. Power company came out and said all was normal.

I investigated. Yep...Normal voltage on pedestal...normal voltage at my surge protector...normal voltage in my distribution panel. So I wrote tech support to the company that makes my Energy Mgmt panel. He wrote back with a Eureka idea. He said to check L1 to Ground and L2 to Ground. Also check Ground to Neutral. I find out I have 9v from Ground to Neutral. The kicker is...the higher your loads..,the larger the disparity becomes.

It can happen when someone wires a receptacle past the transformer...and inadvertently switches Nuetral and Ground. Current gets fed back to the panel incorrectly and will probably do the light dance you are talking about.

When a I got home and plugged into my pedestal...everything was normal again.

Same with Generator,,,normal, normal.


I would find a different pedastle...like on a completely different transformer...and see if the problem doesn’t go away.
Just had a similar issue.. read my post - https://www.irv2.com/forums/f54/elec...=1#usercptools
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Old 07-23-2020, 07:45 PM   #8
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Could also be a bad ground bonding. Neutral to Ground bonding must disconnect for shore power. Often the change over is automatic.

Some inverters have a hard bonding and some have a relay switch. Often generators have hard bonding.

Maybe neighboring coach has a bonding problem.
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