Journey with Confidence RV GPS App RV Trip Planner RV LIFE Campground Reviews RV Maintenance Take a Speed Test Free 7 Day Trial ×
RV Trip Planning Discussions

Go Back   iRV2 Forums > RV SYSTEMS AND TECHNOLOGIES FORUMS > RV Systems & Appliances
Click Here to Login
Join iRV2 Today

Mission Statement: Supporting thoughtful exchange of knowledge, values and experience among RV enthusiasts.
Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on iRV2
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 09-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #1
Senior Member
 
DawnAndChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 102
Electrical - voltage bleed?!

We have a 50amp 240 volt generator. It has two breakers, a 20amp and a 30amp. The 20amp breaker keeps kicking, and there is something else....

When both breakers are closed, I get 120 volts on each leg, and all is right in the world.

When the 20 amp breaker is open, I get 120 volts in leg1... and leg2 still has 20 volts! I thought/think this means there is a short somewhere, and leg1 is somehow energizing leg2 with a small voltage. Does this theory sound right?

Further more, I have broken leg2 in several places, and have a seemingly dead wire, that sill reads voltage! One side of the break reads 8 volts, the other side reads 13 volts. And on a second break, the one side still reads 13 volts and the other reads 20 volts!

I did find where a screw had been put through the wires. I broke the wires at this point to make a repair. I am looking for more issues, but begining to question my data at this point.

Any thoughts as to what might be going on??? I am attaching a picture to try to illustrate my data.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	wired.png
Views:	64
Size:	52.0 KB
ID:	46648  
__________________
Fulltime on the road since... April 29th, 2013.
DawnAndChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Join the #1 RV Forum Today - It's Totally Free!

iRV2.com RV Community - Are you about to start a new improvement on your RV or need some help with some maintenance? Do you need advice on what products to buy? Or maybe you can give others some advice? No matter where you fit in you'll find that iRV2 is a great community to join. Best of all it's totally FREE!

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest so you have limited access to our community. Please take the time to register and you will gain a lot of great new features including; the ability to participate in discussions, network with other RV owners, see fewer ads, upload photographs, create an RV blog, send private messages and so much, much more!

Old 09-24-2013, 09:52 PM   #2
Senior Member
 
vsheetz's Avatar


 
Fleetwood Owners Club
Ford Super Duty Owner
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: SoCal
Posts: 15,749
What is the initial problem with the genny?
__________________
Vince and Susan
2011 Tiffin Phaeton 40QTH (Cummins ISC/Freightliner)
Flat towing a modified 2005 Jeep (Rubicon Wrangler)
Previously a 2002 Fleetwood Pace Arrow 37A and a 1995 Safari Trek 2830.
vsheetz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2013, 09:59 PM   #3
Senior Member
 
DawnAndChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 102
The 20 amp breaker keeps kicking without an apparent load.
__________________
Fulltime on the road since... April 29th, 2013.
DawnAndChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 06:03 AM   #4
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,024
First, the 20 amp breaker is SUPPOSED to run ONE air conditinoer, nothing more... Some of them are miswired with the 20 running the house and the AC on the 30

As for the 20 volt.> Bleed is a good word,, NO LOAD (note that term as it is important) NO LOAD, capacitive coupling between the wires can give you up to sixty volts.

Put a bit of load on it (Night light for example) and zero happens.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 06:22 AM   #5
Senior Member
 
bruceisla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Foley AL
Posts: 7,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by wa8yxm View Post
First, the 20 amp breaker is SUPPOSED to run ONE air conditinoer, nothing more... Some of them are miswired with the 20 running the house and the AC on the 30

As for the 20 volt.> Bleed is a good word,, NO LOAD (note that term as it is important) NO LOAD, capacitive coupling between the wires can give you up to sixty volts.

Put a bit of load on it (Night light for example) and zero happens.
Good advice ... the 20 "ish" volts is likely to be an induced voltage at a very low current from another source in close proximity. As suggested, a load (lamp) will probably make it zero volts. This will not fix your problem may may eliminate troubleshooting confusion.

Are you sure you didn't already fix your problem (screw thru wire)?
__________________
2005 Newmar Essex 4502, 2013 Caddy SRX
1997 HR Endeavor 37, CAT, 1996 Geo Tracker
bruceisla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 10:57 AM   #6
Senior Member
 
DawnAndChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 102
Thanks wa8yxm!

Actually, you were right about the 20 amp breaker being mis-wired. It was going to the house on a 30 amp breaker. When I first saw that, I was certain I had fixed the problem, but alas... not so much. At least we have alieviated the symptoms. We never run the AC and when it kicks, we loose nothing.

I was worried there was a short somewhere causing unseen damage, possibly threatening the rig and maybe getting worse - even though we can comfortably leave the breaker off.

Thanks bruceisla!

Inductive load huh.... When I first saw the 20 volts (and with the breaker still kicking), I thought maybe there was a short and that the 20v was a sign of it. But as I began breaking the circuit and seeing all this weird volatage, I definetly began to wonder about an induction possibility.

I DID find one screw, and it did pierce one of the hot legs inside. I knew this was a problem, but wasnt convinced it was "thee" problem because it didnt expose leg 2. (back on my energizing leg 2 theory).

Thanks to you both!!!

I will re-evaluate with this new information.
__________________
Fulltime on the road since... April 29th, 2013.
DawnAndChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 11:40 AM   #7
Senior Member
 
bruceisla's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Foley AL
Posts: 7,138
Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnAndChris View Post
Thanks wa8yxm!

Actually, you were right about the 20 amp breaker being mis-wired. It was going to the house on a 30 amp breaker. When I first saw that, I was certain I had fixed the problem, but alas... not so much. At least we have alieviated the symptoms. We never run the AC and when it kicks, we loose nothing.

I was worried there was a short somewhere causing unseen damage, possibly threatening the rig and maybe getting worse - even though we can comfortably leave the breaker off.

Thanks bruceisla!

Inductive load huh.... When I first saw the 20 volts (and with the breaker still kicking), I thought maybe there was a short and that the 20v was a sign of it. But as I began breaking the circuit and seeing all this weird volatage, I definetly began to wonder about an induction possibility.

I DID find one screw, and it did pierce one of the hot legs inside. I knew this was a problem, but wasnt convinced it was "thee" problem because it didnt expose leg 2. (back on my energizing leg 2 theory).

Thanks to you both!!!

I will re-evaluate with this new information.
And thank you! ... we always appreciate feedback.
Let us know what you find.
__________________
2005 Newmar Essex 4502, 2013 Caddy SRX
1997 HR Endeavor 37, CAT, 1996 Geo Tracker
bruceisla is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 01:56 PM   #8
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Langley. BC, Canada
Posts: 679
Hi Chris, I think you have some pretty good answers here.

I think what you might be seeing is what is sometimes called "ghost voltage" caused by voltage induced onto a conductor from an adjacent one. If you used a low impedance type voltmeter you probably wouldn't measure anything. Most multimeters nowadays are the high impedance type. This link should give you some insight:

http://http://www.fluke.com/fluke/us...+impedance.htm
__________________
Gil & Deb & Dougal the Springer Spaniel
2014 KZ Spree 262RKS & Ford F250 supercab V10 4x4 LB
Langley, B.C.
myredracer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 05:25 PM   #9
Senior Member
 
wa8yxm's Avatar
 
Damon Owners Club
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 24,024
I too thank you for the feedback... I consider it "Capacitive couplling" but inductive works as well.

Here is what is happening.. A Capacitor is a device that passes AC but not DC, it consists of two conductive "plates" seperated by an insulator.

Or in your case. The red wire, and the black wire, and the insulation surrounding them. It is also called inductive coupling.

Normally it can not pass a whole lot of current.. but then I've been put on my....pride... by a metal gate attached to a woven wire fence staked in place with steel posts driven in the ground (Can you say very well grounded) because the weave of the wire formed a perfect transformer and an electric fan motor was "Coupling" to the fence.
__________________
Home is where I park it!
wa8yxm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-25-2013, 06:49 PM   #10
Senior Member
 
DawnAndChris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Vagabond
Posts: 102
Thank you myredracer.

I do appreciate everyone's help!


I definetly think the Capacitive couplling was not a symptom of the problem. I just didnt know any better at the time. I have since checked all the wires for continuety, and they all look fine. No more shorts seem to exist.

If the breaker continues to pop, I think my next step will be to replace the breaker.
__________________
Fulltime on the road since... April 29th, 2013.
DawnAndChris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
electrical



Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electrical Issue Bymorris Class A Motorhome Discussions 7 09-21-2013 06:19 AM
Please help! New fulltimer with distressing electrical problem! ocipura Class A Motorhome Discussions 67 09-18-2013 02:41 PM
Help identifying electrical component where power comes in Turbo38sfi Class A Motorhome Discussions 36 08-31-2013 07:30 AM
American Coach: Revolution LE electrical cerecdoc Fleetwood Owner's Forum 9 07-20-2013 01:10 AM
electrical help '01 DS jimnkaran Newmar Owner's Forum 5 06-06-2013 06:43 AM

» Featured Campgrounds

Reviews provided by


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:22 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2023, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.