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09-30-2020, 04:40 PM
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#1
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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Genset Start Switch, or *Really* Cheap AGS...
When we woke up this morning (at home), the generator was running in the coach. This is sort of unusual, to say the least. We were plugged in, and the rig doesn't have an autostart system, but start on its own it apparently had. I traipsed outside in by slippers and robe to shut it off.
An hour or two later, it started up again! I shut it off again. Then I turned off the coach battery disconnect, and the instant I did, it started again. This turned out to be coincidence, I found later. I turned the battery back on and the gensert back off. Then I tried to turn it on, and it wouldn't crank. I pulled the genset out and pushed its start button and it fired right up. I turned it off and ran the slide back in. A minute or two later, it turned over, perhaps once, and went silent. A few minutes later, the same thing. I tried the remote start panel in the bedroom and it also did not work. Hmmmm...
Finally, I unplugged the center lead from the dash's genset start switch. Everything now works normally except that switch. New one on order...but I thought I'd share.
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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09-30-2020, 04:42 PM
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#2
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Community Administrator
Tiffin Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: DFW, Texas
Posts: 21,259
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There have been reported instances of "ghost" starts and it's usually caused by corroded connections in the generator bay. The connection from the dash start switch is probably the culprit since disabling that stopped the problem.
__________________
2017 Phaeton 40IH XSH Maroon Coral - Power Glide Chassis with IFS
Previous '15 Tiffin Allegro RED 38QRA and '06 Itasca Sunrise 35A
'16 Jeep JKU Wrangler Sahara or '08 Honda Goldwing
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09-30-2020, 06:44 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Chicago Metro
Posts: 3,957
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had a buddy in high school who kept finding his car running in the driveway when he got up in the morning. one day the gas tank was empty. because it only happened at night in his driveway he stayed up one night watching and listening sure that someone was playing a prank. after a few hours he heard the car start and looked out the window but saw no one. AFAIR he "solved" the problem by selling the car.
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Rich, Ham Radio, Sport Pilot
Retired 9-1-1 Admin.
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09-30-2020, 07:10 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt Dan
There have been reported instances of "ghost" starts and it's usually caused by corroded connections in the generator bay. The connection from the dash start switch is probably the culprit since disabling that stopped the problem.
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Thanks. I'll check the harness connections tomorrow on what the book says is connector J8/P8 and report back. That would have been my next step if disconnecting the switch hadn't worked, and I've been meaning to do it anyway after reading various gremlins caused by corrosion of the connections to these gensets.
However, I think the same harness is used for the both the BR and dash switches. The connections are daisy-chained between the two. There are two wires on each connector at the dash switch. With the dash remote switch disconnected at the dashboard switch itself (that is, not at the genset), it's been OK most of the day now, and the BR switch and indicator now work correctly, which they did not early this morning.
On the other hand, we could wake up tomorrow and find it on again (grin). Either way, I'll check out those connections. Checking is free...3/4 tank of diesel--100 gallons!--if we're away and this happens again isn't!
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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10-01-2020, 09:43 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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The genset stayed off all night, so it's been over 24 hours now without a spurious start. I pulled J8/P8 and found no corrosion. I sprayed it with cleaner and worked it in and out several times anyway. Then I dug more into the wiring diagrams. I found that the start/stop switch on the generator itself is not on the same circuit as the remote start switches. Instead, both plug into the inverter board on different pins of P2.
Has anyone found corroded connections inside the genset itself at the inverter board?
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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10-12-2020, 06:05 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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New switch arrived this morning. I put it in. No ghost starts so far...
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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10-30-2020, 07:14 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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Think it was the switch...
Quote:
Originally Posted by n2zon
New switch arrived this morning. I put it in. No ghost starts so far...
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...and still none, 18 days later. Hoping this was it!
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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10-30-2020, 08:15 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2zon
...and still none, 18 days later. Hoping this was it!
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Of course, right after posting this...it started on its own. Back to Square 1.
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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11-01-2020, 07:54 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Damon Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2020
Location: Clovis NM
Posts: 4,389
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You were led in the right direction in post 2.
__________________
2006 Damon Daybreak 3276 35'with 5 Star Tuner. 3 200 Amp Lithium batteries and 2000 watt PSW inverter/charger. 2013 Elantra on a Master Tow dolly.
Retired USAF
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11-01-2020, 05:35 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2020
Location: NY State
Posts: 3,089
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryStone
You were led in the right direction in post 2.
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I really, really hate intermittent problems.
I have had that connector (J8/P8) apart, twice now, the first time as a result of Lt Dan's post, and the second time in case I missed something the first time. There is no visible corrosion. Both sides look great.
This last time, I removed the wire and seal retainers on the wire side of the connectors. I found some water in the back sides where the wires enter the connector, so I blew out both sides with compressed air, made sure everything was dry inside and out, and packed the wire sides of the connectors with silicone grease to prevent any possible water intrusion even though the insides looked perfectly dry.
While the remote start harness connector was unplugged, the generator started itself again, so whatever is wrong would seem to be on the genset side and not the coach side. This would seem to leave any corrosion potential problem at the control board connections (cheap or free to fix), or suggest a defective control board (ouch). Onan's troubleshooting guide suggests the latter but I'm not willing to spend $3K to find out just yet.
I'm happy to hear other suggestions or how I could have missed the corrosion or some other problem with the connectors that could cause the uncommanded starts. I cleaned those connections with contact cleaner, but I could clean them with solvent and try again if someone has some experience to guide me in that direction, but corrosion is usually easy to see.
"Wet and cold" seems to be the 2-time common denominator, but as a statistical sample it leaves something to be desired. I am not 100% happy with the feel of the start/top switch on the generator itself, so I might try disconnecting or replacing it to see what happens before going further.
More ideas and thoughts are most welcome.
__________________
John
1976 Southwind 28', '96 Winnie 34WK,
2006 Tiffin Allegro Bus 40QDP
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