Glad I stuck with our 3 way fridge

[al2ride]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

It was in a sticks&bricks house. No inverters involved. Just a bad design executed even more poorly.

Let's compare residential refrigerator failures vs. RV refrigerators. Don't forget to take into consideration how many residential refrigerators there are compared to RVs. I'm not a betting man, but I would have to go RVs.

[al2ride]

Originally Posted by bokobird

X2

That's what happens when you post in an open forum with so many opinionated people such as myself.

[al2ride]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

If you listen to Muddypaws, there is no risk of fire except for the only one that has happened and posted on the Internet 4000 times.

With that information it sure takes the wind out of sails for that Class Action suit filed by the attorneys.

Plus I would NEVER pay $7000 for any Dometic RV Refrigerator or for that matter any RV fridge.

I am a very happy camper with over two years of great service from my Samsung which is extremely quiet compared to the NotSoCold which had 8 fans running 24/7 and it still didn't keep the food from spoiling.

BTW, the temps I have been getting consistently for the fridge have been 36F-38F and for the freezer -9F-0F.

JMTCW

Dr4Film ----- Richard

You crack me up! NotSoCold

What about Doh'MEDIC (military sounding)

[Dr4Film]

Originally Posted by al2ride

If your residential fridge does not go lower than 40 then it needs repair.

I've been wanting to do a test to see how long ours will actually last on batteries. That, of course, would be at a rate of opening/closing the doors at maybe every hour or so to simulate normal use. In which case, if you are boondocking, you would watch that closely.

One thing for sure, I trust residential refrigerators to be on 100% of the time. I tried that with one Dometic that lost a thermistor, went on full throttle, and shutdown....lost all food. Another Dometic unit........

BTW, I have talked to a couple of GT owners with burnt electronics within the fridge and microwave...they have now invested in a surge protectors. You can't blame the manufacturer for bad power.

I glad that I can provide some humor to your day!

I agree with you! If my residential would not go lower than 40F it would be out the door quickly! Muddypaws will also tell you that there are many more RV Inverter fires that there are RF fridge fires. However, how many inverter fires have you read about on iRV2.com versus fridge fires?

We are each entitled to our opinions. But I would caution people to read and research for yourselves before trusting what one person states.

I did a three month study on the power needed to run the Samsung RF197 fridge. It averaged out to be between 1.81 - 1.83 KWH's per day. My house battery bank has no problem with that little draw. Maybe one day I will add another pair of 6 VDC batteries to my existing bank which will give me 33% more AH's. I have 450 AH's currently and the extra batteries would take me to 675 AH's.

The EMS system of choice and it comes highly recommended on this forum is the one made by Progressive Industries. I use the HW-50C EMS unit. I have full confidence in that device and it has not failed me in 4 years of service.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

[Muddypaws]

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

I glad that I can provide some humor to your day!

I agree with you! If my residential would not go lower than 40F it would be out the door quickly! Muddypaws will also tell you that there are many more RV Inverter fires that there are RF fridge fires. However, how many inverter fires have you read about on iRV2.com versus fridge fires?

We are each entitled to our opinions. But I would caution people to read and research for yourselves before trusting what one person states.

I did a three month study on the power needed to run the Samsung RF197 fridge. It averaged out to be between 1.81 - 1.83 KWH's per day. My house battery bank has no problem with that little draw. Maybe one day I will add another pair of 6 VDC batteries to my existing bank which will give me 33% more AH's. I have 450 AH's currently and the extra batteries would take me to 675 AH's.

The EMS system of choice and it comes highly recommended on this forum is the one made by Progressive Industries. I use the HW-50C EMS unit. I have full confidence in that device and it has not failed me in 4 years of service.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

Let's not forget that my previous RV, a Montana fifth wheel, was nearly destroyed by a friggin' INVERTER CAUSED FIRE! $23K in damages. Another few minutes before a neighbor spotted the smoke and it would have been a total loss.

Then my brother in law lost his brand new Heartland fiver to a probable inverter failure. The fire spread to his house and totally destroyed it as well. It also took out part of his neighbors house. (BTW: I have pictures). Well over a million $ loss. So yeah, It is all about experience. Mine differs from yours.

If Norcold refers nuked as often as some say there would be dozens, no -hundreds of people posting pictures of burned up rigs on this site. Where are they? So far we have one in this thread. One out of how many members?

I've been on this forum for 3 years and in that time I think there have been all of two or three actual documented refer fires. But every time a rig goes up in flames the first assumption is: 'another refer fire'. This even when the fire investigator says it was something else. I remember one where the newscaster clearly stated that it was an engine fire, didn't seem to matter. Once someone makes 'that' comment it's such an emotional issue that it 'becomes indistinguishable from the truth'.

I'm pretty good at research, I taught online data analytics to insurance actuaries for 18 months of my career.

The scarier thing to me are the situations where folks have installed a residential without providing adequate ventilation and for cleaning dust out of the coils. They may have put a second inverter in an un monitored and poorly ventilated location as well. And they think they're safe?

I know that Richard did it right and I suggest that anyone who needs advice on HOW to do it (maybe not so much on why, ) should seek his advice.

[al2ride]

Talking about factory installed stuff:

Mac the Fire Guy didn't say anything about inverters...he don't mess'aroun

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NQy11h7s6ro

Norcold Fire-Prone RV & Boat Refrigerator Lawsuit

Couldn't find a law suit against inverters, but that doesn't mean it's not out there. I think the difference is that you can't abuse a refrigerator...you turn it on and go about your business. However, it's a different story with an inverter.

[Muddypaws]

The fire guy presents his opinion and you accept it as fact. It is not. He has a financial stake in selling fire equipment so perhaps his opinion is biased? If you can assume his opinion is fact then I can assume he lumped inverters in with all other electrical fires. The way I've seen some refers installed IS abuse! Apparently many RV's are put together by drunk monkeys.

My best friend has been in the fire protection business for almost as long as I've known him. (40+ years) He owns the FP company but his RV has a Dometic refer - as delivered from the factory. No halon system even though he sells them, The wave of 'refer madness' is making him lots of money. He just grins all the way to the bank and makes no comment.

I read the class action lawsuit, did anybody else? It alleges that there have been over 2000 fires between 2001 and 2011. Since they are only looking at a 10 year time frame that would be 200 fires a year. If there were 200 fires a year don't you think all of us would have seen one firsthand by now? Wouldn't the media be all over it like white on snow? RV shops would be littered with refer damaged rigs and you'd see them everywhere. I've seen one, but it was a 15 year old Southwind and not within the 10 years. The damage was minor as luck would have it.

But the suit focuses more on failures causing loss of cooling and function. If they win the manufacturer will be on the hook to replace the coils on hundreds of thousands of refrigerators. it is likely that they will not financially survive. Zimmerman/Reed has dozens of class actions pending. Including one against Samsung. (Ironic ain't it?)

A new couple joined our RV group this month and they actually had a Norcold leak. They had left it on and unattended for a few weeks and when they opened the door the ammonia odor was unmistakable. It did not catch fire. They don't all go Hindenburg......

In my humble opinion we may be better off focusing on the things that cause the most fires. Cooking, electric heaters, microwave ovens, toasters and SMOKING! (I wonder how many smokers have replaced their refers and feel safer?) Lately there have been several articles about microwave ovens randomly turning themselves on. That's probably going to cause a fair number of fires.

Don't give in to 'refer madness' but do keep an eye on things. Check the boiler tube for leaks, check the bottom of the burner for debris. And at the first whiff of ammonia turn it off. Get better fire extinguishers and keep them serviced. (I have two inside and a large portable halon bottle in the easiest to access exterior cabinet)

If and when mine goes I will probably replace it with an Amish. Mostly because I don't want to run my generator every day and I don't like being tied to the pole. But I've heard from someone who installs them that the Amish coils have a pretty bad first year failure rate. But just as with the fire guys opinion take that with a grain of salt.

How come nobody makes fire alarm specifically for RV refers? Something that would go off if the flue temperature goes above a specific point? Seems like it would be fairly simple to design and build? I'm guessing nobody wants the liability.

Maybe by then Attwood will have a 1200 sized Helium refer?

Always entertaining when there's a Norcold thread.

[al2ride]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

The fire guy presents his opinion and you accept it as fact. It is not. He has a financial stake in selling fire equipment so perhaps his opinion is biased? If you can assume his opinion is fact then I can assume he lumped inverters in with all other electrical fires. The way I've seen some refers installed IS abuse! Apparently many RV's are put together by drunk monkeys.

My best friend has been in the fire protection business for almost as long as I've known him. (40+ years) He owns the FP company but his RV has a Dometic refer - as delivered from the factory. No halon system even though he sells them, The wave of 'refer madness' is making him lots of money. He just grins all the way to the bank and makes no comment.

I read the class action lawsuit, did anybody else? It alleges that there have been over 2000 fires between 2001 and 2011. Since they are only looking at a 10 year time frame that would be 200 fires a year. If there were 200 fires a year don't you think all of us would have seen one firsthand by now? Wouldn't the media be all over it like white on snow? RV shops would be littered with refer damaged rigs and you'd see them everywhere. I've seen one, but it was a 15 year old Southwind and not within the 10 years. The damage was minor as luck would have it.

But the suit focuses more on failures causing loss of cooling and function. If they win the manufacturer will be on the hook to replace the coils on hundreds of thousands of refrigerators. it is likely that they will not financially survive. Zimmerman/Reed has dozens of class actions pending. Including one against Samsung. (Ironic ain't it?)

A new couple joined our RV group this month and they actually had a Norcold leak. They had left it on and unattended for a few weeks and when they opened the door the ammonia odor was unmistakable. It did not catch fire. They don't all go Hindenburg......

In my humble opinion we may be better off focusing on the things that cause the most fires. Cooking, electric heaters, microwave ovens, toasters and SMOKING! (I wonder how many smokers have replaced their refers and feel safer?) Lately there have been several articles about microwave ovens randomly turning themselves on. That's probably going to cause a fair number of fires.

Don't give in to 'refer madness' but do keep an eye on things. Check the boiler tube for leaks, check the bottom of the burner for debris. And at the first whiff of ammonia turn it off. Get better fire extinguishers and keep them serviced. (I have two inside and a large portable halon bottle in the easiest to access exterior cabinet)

If and when mine goes I will probably replace it with an Amish. Mostly because I don't want to run my generator every day and I don't like being tied to the pole. But I've heard from someone who installs them that the Amish coils have a pretty bad first year failure rate. But just as with the fire guys opinion take that with a grain of salt.

How come nobody makes fire alarm specifically for RV refers? Something that would go off if the flue temperature goes above a specific point? Seems like it would be fairly simple to design and build? I'm guessing nobody wants the liability.

Maybe by then Attwood will have a 1200 sized Helium refer?

Always entertaining when there's a Norcold thread.

I thought the fire guy was funny. I've never had a Norcold, a fire, or known someone that has had a fire. However, I've had nothing but issues with Dometics and they are probably very similar as far as technology goes. Like I said, never a fire, but common sense says that something has gas, heater element, ammonia, or whatever else is in there trumps something designed to convert 110 to 12 volts. Would you bet on Tyson or Woody Allen in a fight. LOL

[Muddypaws]

I've never had an issue with a Norcold or Dometic that I could not diagnose and fix myself. Not that there have been many.

How about we put Kim K and Dance Mom in the ring. We win either way!

[al2ride]

Originally Posted by Muddypaws

How about we put Kim K and Dance Mom in the ring. We win either way!

Now, that would be funny.

[jesilvas]

Originally Posted by al2ride

Like I said, never a fire, but common sense says that something has gas, heater element, ammonia, or whatever else is in there trumps something designed to convert 110 to 12 volts. Would you bet on Tyson or Woody Allen in a fight. LOL

You do know that most commercial/industrial systems are gas absorption systems right?
A boiler with ammonia, water, sodium chromate, and either hydrogen or helium.

[jspande]

Originally Posted by jesilvas

You do know that most commercial/industrial systems are gas absorption systems right?
A boiler with ammonia, water, sodium chromate, and either hydrogen or helium.

Could you elaborate? What systems - A/C on commercial buildings? Display coolers in super markets? Walk-in freezers? I know we're shamefully wasteful of energy in this country, but I would think industry would be a little cost-conscious.

I've personally compared the two types with actual power consumption measurements (over a 24 hour period). I first did the test on an 8 cu.ft. Dometic double door and later (after it developed a leak) replaced it with an 8 cu.ft. Vitrofrigo 12 volt compressor type refer and did the test again. The compressor model was between 5 and 10 times more efficient! And note that the test was done operating the Dometic on electric (so the instrument would measure all the energy used), which should be the most efficient mode (no heat lost up the chimney as is the case with burning gas).

[jesilvas]

Being taught gas absorption systems, I learned large industrial coolers use them. I didn't get their names.

You also tested DC vs. AC power, and on a small scale. What's to say it would match large scale.

[Ed-Sommers]

My last two rigs have been with Norcold's, and my ice cream has alwas been solid, and if I don't watch it and have the temp too low my veggies freeze.

I also 100% boondock, so what's not to like?

Ed USN Ret.