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Old 05-14-2014, 01:01 PM   #29
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i made this really fast as most install PDFs just say pin 1 to pin 04954309580?????

just like cars now days they want you to pay some one else to work on it

with that said i just wanted to make sure you dont have a loop going on some where

you say you like to dry camp so thats why i got the feeling

when i think is going on in your system is more just to high of a load on the wiring form your gen to the inverter

you are running 2 AC units and if your inverter gos in to high charge mood pulls alot of amps on one side of the 220 .........humm that just got me thinking again


are you running a 220 system and only a 110 inverter

is one side of your 220 wired in to the TS and the other in to the inverter to make it out of faze

or are you running 2 inverter slaved to make the 220AC

or is the inverter setting in one side of the 220 line and letter power flow thought it
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:26 PM   #30
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is this how your system is setup

i guess this is coming down to where we need to know what wire is going where
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Old 05-14-2014, 01:37 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry735001 View Post
i made this really fast as most install PDFs just say pin 1 to pin 04954309580?????
just like cars now days they want you to pay some one else to work on it
with that said i just wanted to make sure you dont have a loop going on some where
you say you like to dry camp so thats why i got the feeling
when i think is going on in your system is more just to high of a load on the wiring form your gen to the inverter
you are running 2 AC units and if your inverter gos in to high charge mood pulls alot of amps on one side of the 220 ........humm that just got me thinking again

are you running a 220 system and only a 110 inverter
is one side of your 220 wired in to the TS and the other in to the inverter to make it out of faze
or are you running 2 inverter slaved to make the 220AC
or is the inverter setting in one side of the 220 line and letter power flow thought it
WOW! - Talk about LOOPS!! The diagram and the explanation given here would result in an operational disaster. Fire might be the only result.

To the OP......

Your transfer switch does NOT have inputs from three sources, it has two. Shore power and Generator power. The output of the transfer switch may very well feed the transfer switch associated with (and an integral part of) the inverter.

As I've stated along with others here, I think your problem is in the transfer switch.

Could you post a photo of your circuit breaker arrangement in your main power panel? This will tell us how your inverter is actually wires into your system. I am assuming it is a one output inverter, but I may be wrong.
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Old 05-14-2014, 03:23 PM   #32
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WOW! - Talk about LOOPS!! The diagram and the explanation given here would result in an operational disaster. Fire might be the only result.

To the OP......

Your transfer switch does NOT have inputs from three sources, it has two. Shore power and Generator power. The output of the transfer switch may very well feed the transfer switch associated with (and an integral part of) the inverter.

As I've stated along with others here, I think your problem is in the transfer switch.

Could you post a photo of your circuit breaker arrangement in your main power panel? This will tell us how your inverter is actually wires into your system. I am assuming it is a one output inverter, but I may be wrong.

again if i am wrong i need to know where and why
nice way of putting it put your money where your .. wow sorry not trying to sound hard here

i am very ok with saying i am wrong but from how i was told and shown in solar and inverter installs on RV this was how

edit my pics if you want .. show me the right way ,,

if not i well keep showing the way i was showed in RV training

so show me the right way to keep the neutral to ground fault with a 220AC and 110ac inverter / chagrining mood from out side power and gen power at any time with out making a err

PS way up there i said the same thing that i did not think hes unit was the 3 input type .. that may be he mint want to look into it as his unit looks alot older and that may his RV never came with a inverter and was installed latter ??? not sure
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Old 05-15-2014, 02:37 AM   #33
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Hi, ok I'm trying to soft through all of the info here. Thanks guys!

Just to clear things up:

The transfer switch has two inputs (gen/shore) and one output.

The output of the transfer switch goes to the inverter. That way the batteries charge from either gen or shore.

There is a leg from the gen that powers a couple of outlets that does not go through the inverter.

The inverter is a Xantrex SW 2000. It has 1 input and 1 output. There are 4 lines connected to that inverter output. The microwave is on one, the lights are on another, I presume the 2 A/Cs have their own lines as well.

The inverter powers the whole coach well. But the A/C and fan don't come on at all from inverter power. The A/C only works from gen or shore. It's possible that the A/C is running on a leg that does not go thrpugh the inverter.

Either way, when the lights flicker the A/C also thumps.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:22 AM   #34
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Air conditioners do not run through the inverter. Batteries just could not support the load for very long in an rv.

I sure would like to see a picture of the lights you say are 110 volts.
Can you describe "flickering". Or is it a dimming? Flickering to me means a very fast flash almost like a strobe. Dimming would coinside with the generator ramping up/bogging down while the AC starts up for example.

In any case, if the lights are 110 or 12 volt they could indeed dim due to a slump in the Generator power. If 12 volts then the charging voltage could drop a bit with a lower generator voltage during ramp up of the air conditioners.
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Old 05-15-2014, 06:29 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
Air conditioners do not run through the inverter. Batteries just could not support the load for very long in an rv.

I sure would like to see a picture of the lights you say are 110 volts.
Can you describe "flickering". Or is it a dimming? Flickering to me means a very fast flash almost like a strobe. Dimming would coinside with the generator ramping up/bogging down while the AC starts up for example.

In any case, if the lights are 110 or 12 volt they could indeed dim due to a slump in the Generator power. If 12 volts then the charging voltage could drop a bit with a lower generator voltage during ramp up of the air conditioners.
Agree AC's do not run through inverters lights dimming cause from current draw of AC.
Maybe you should rewire to coach to conform with the wiring diagrams
in this link to make it simpler for you.
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:06 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RufussSewell View Post
The microwave is on one, the lights are on another, I presume the 2 A/Cs have their own lines as well.
No way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RufussSewell View Post
It's possible that the A/C is running on a leg that does not go thrpugh the inverter.
It's not just possible, it is how it should be set up. It takes a massive battery bank and inverter to run AC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RufussSewell View Post
Either way, when the lights flicker the A/C also thumps.
Yup, have you tried bypassing the transfer switch or any of the other things suggested yet?
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Old 05-15-2014, 07:33 AM   #37
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I wonder of the AC output of the Xantrex SW 2000 is also connected to the AC output of the Generator. I that is the case the control board in the inverter and the control board in the genset would have competing control loops. No bet on what would happen but glad it is does not involve magic smoke.

Might want to disconnect the AC output of the inverter or if you are afraid of how it handled no load put a couple of lamps on it. Plug in and see if there is AC at the inverter only plugs. Ditto run the genset. If you have AC in either case something is cross connected that should not be. This eliminates the built in transfer switch in the inverter.

Given the inverter transfer switch if either shore power or genset power are present the inverter is not part of the loop. The only time it supplies power is when there is no AC from either other source. What can happen is any spike in the AC load like an AC starting can trigger a short term line sag. The inverter should have a delay built in to allow for that sag. If it does not or if the sag is too long the inverter will start up and transfer the load then shut down and transfer back as the line voltage sag increases back to the normal range. That will give you a flurry of line noise and relay clicking. Normal but not the way I would do it.

FWIW if l was doing it I would run the separate line off the inverter full time and get rid of the internal transfer switch. That is how high end computer UPS systems work. The other option is to extend the sag protection time for a few more cycles. That leaves me wondering what the folks at Xantrex have to say about your problem.
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Old 05-15-2014, 08:01 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by terry735001 View Post

i am very ok with saying i am wrong but from how i was told and shown in solar and inverter installs on RV this was how

edit my pics if you want .. show me the right way ,,

if not i well keep showing the way i was showed in RV training

so show me the right way to keep the neutral to ground fault with a 220AC and 110ac inverter / chagrining mood from out side power and gen power at any time with out making a err

PS way up there i said the same thing that i did not think hes unit was the 3 input type .. that may be he mint want to look into it as his unit looks alot older and that may his RV never came with a inverter and was installed latter ??? not sure
Well, I think you are way off base on this and frankly I could not follow any thing about what you were trying to convey to the thread.

His transfer switch has two inputs and one output, same as mine and many others who own RV's.

There are transfer switches that do have three inputs and one output but there are not commonly used in RV's unless an RV did not come with an inverter from the factory.

Not sure how your system works but the electrical problem that is being discussed has a transfer switch with 2 inputs and 1 output.

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Old 05-15-2014, 08:58 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RufussSewell View Post
Hi, ok I'm trying to soft through all of the info here. Thanks guys!

Just to clear things up:

The transfer switch has two inputs (gen/shore) and one output.

The output of the transfer switch goes to the inverter. That way the batteries charge from either gen or shore.

There is a leg from the gen that powers a couple of outlets that does not go through the inverter.

The inverter is a Xantrex SW 2000. It has 1 input and 1 output. There are 4 lines connected to that inverter output. The microwave is on one, the lights are on another, I presume the 2 A/Cs have their own lines as well.

The inverter powers the whole coach well. But the A/C and fan don't come on at all from inverter power. The A/C only works from gen or shore. It's possible that the A/C is running on a leg that does not go thrpugh the inverter.

Either way, when the lights flicker the A/C also thumps.
Questions;
Does the output of your transfer switch go directly to the inverter or does it pass through your main breaker panel?

I assume it passes through the breaker panel to split off the power for the air conditioners.

Is there a breaker in the box feeding the inverter?

Can you post a picture of the labeling for the breakers in the breaker panel? This would help in determining the actual routing of the wiring.
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:14 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RufussSewell View Post
Hi, ok I'm trying to soft through all of the info here. Thanks guys!

Just to clear things up:

The transfer switch has two inputs (gen/shore) and one output.

The output of the transfer switch goes to the inverter. That way the batteries charge from either gen or shore.

There is a leg from the gen that powers a couple of outlets that does not go through the inverter.

The inverter is a Xantrex SW 2000. It has 1 input and 1 output. There are 4 lines connected to that inverter output. The microwave is on one, the lights are on another, I presume the 2 A/Cs have their own lines as well.

The inverter powers the whole coach well. But the A/C and fan don't come on at all from inverter power. The A/C only works from gen or shore. It's possible that the A/C is running on a leg that does not go thrpugh the inverter.

Either way, when the lights flicker the A/C also thumps.
i think you are over loading one side of your 220ac then

if what you are saying is right you are pulling 2 AC units on one leg of the 220 ac and then giving what mood the inverter is in pulls a high load to no load

OR if a ac unit is ran in to the inverter the inverter is set to a max load and if it see this make load takes the load .. you may have lost battery power one day and every thing defaulted back in the inverter setting

all so having the inverter down line is that the inverter has no neutral to ground but the gen is if this is the case that needs to be looked at

you are all most like me but my setup is more HD my inverter runs all of the RV ac units and all

i was thinking your system would be setup like what i have .. when you said you like to dry camp


the other day i got a really upsetting email about michelle and all day you could tell in my posts i was upset and i am sorry for that .. i did not take as much time as i should to give the info i was trying to give

with your system it is harder to setup as you are trying to run a 220 gen and a 110 inverter .. when the inverter is in pass thogh mood every thing is cool but as soon as the inverter takes the load then the gen has only one side of the 220 working if the neutral is cut off when this happens power is lost on the gen side and this is where i think you would need a 3 input unit

if you look at the pic i made and what i said here you would under stand
look at the Y when it comes off the inverter
a open land ... power comes in for shore power......... power comess in
b closed gen .. no power

a closed land .. no power
b open gen ...............................................pow er comes in gen

a closed power from one side of inverter in .....power comes in inverter
b closed power from one side of inverter in .....power comes in inverter

this way your inverter gets power at all times but is not passing any in tell power is lost on the gen this well let you wire your loads right on each side of the 220

its sure nice to sure get every one saying your wrong but well not take the time like i did to show why and how it should be

alot of the RVs i worked on where higher end units with a RV fleet wood tech .. most of the RVs had 2 to 4 inverters installed like the outback units so they would have full 220AC even my inverter is setup to do this if i want


again to any one that would like to know just over a transfer switch shows two inputs (gen/shore) and one output. dos not mane it is not a 3 input unit .. look to see if it can see 3 inputs . look at the install files PDFs paper back . any info that comes with it


DOT standers for RVs says the inverter must be installed with a neutral to ground auto switch and in doing so well be installed on the 3input of a transfer switch or have its own transfer switch
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:35 AM   #41
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I have attached a PDF file manual of the Xantrex RS-2000 Watt Inverter. On page 7 there is a wiring schematic of how most inverter's are wired in RV's. Mine is wired the same but I have a different inverter. I have the Xantrex/Trace RV-2012 2000 Watt MSW Inverter.

You will notice on page 7 that the transfer switch has two inputs and one output. The power comes from the transfer switch and should go to the main sub-panel. Then part of it goes into the inverter and back out to another inverter sub-panel.

Any non-inverter loads come directly from the main sub-panel and any inverter loads come from the inverter sub-panel.

I hope this helps.

Dr4Film ----- Richard
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Old 05-15-2014, 11:42 AM   #42
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with your system it is harder to setup as you are trying to run a 220 gen and a 110 inverter .. when the inverter is in pass thogh mood every thing is cool but as soon as the inverter takes the load then the gen has only one side of the 220 working if the neutral is cut off when this happens power is lost on the gen side and this is where i think you would need a 3 input unit
His generator is NOT a 240 VAC generator. It is 120 VAC.

He has the same generator as mine, Onan QD-7500 KW which is a 120 VAC generator.

You don't get into 240 VAC generators until you get up to the 10,000 & 12,000 KW generators.

FYI...

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