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Old 08-14-2022, 08:35 AM   #1
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How does the 120V system work

New to RV life an recently bought a 2000 Fleetwood 37V which has a 30a shore, freedom 458 2000w inverter, 8000 onan generator with 4 GC2 6V 225AH in series/parallel so 450AH/12V. And 2 AC units (unsure of size)

I'm planning a customization of this rig with a ton of expensive tech so concerned about power stability. I've replaced all batteries and today am replacing the inverter with a Victron 2000w along with adding some Victron controls for management. Since the Victron is sinewave my understanding is I want everything to run through the inverter so I have clean stable power. But since it's only 2000w my power will be bottlenecked which can be resolved by adding additional inverters in parallel.

My questions are. Is this how these RVs are wired originally where everything runs through the inverter or do I need to trace and rewire things? One of the AC units needs replaced (fan works just no AC) and since only 30a it can only run 1 AC at a time so the intellinet thing sheds and will switch from one to the other every 30 minutes. On generator it seems I can run both. If I buy another inverter or two so I have 4000w or 6000w inverter power would I be able to run both with shore power and have also it use the batteries for when it goes over the 30a shore then she'd when the batteries get low? Maybe I should buy a smaller and efficient AC unit so I can get both to run under 30a?
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:19 AM   #2
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Welcome to iRV2.

The original inverter , output to outlets is most likely limited to the kitchen area ; microwave and maybe 2 more outlets . The intent was to have food preparation available without running the genset ( TV also on inverted circuit.).
To wire all outlets in the coach to the inverter , would require a full re-wire .
Adding additional inverters would strain the batteries if more amp draw is added .
Roof A/C units , some have attempted to use them on inverter power but the run time is very short .
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:24 AM   #3
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i will try to give some answers but i think you really need to do some research before you start your customization. it looks like you are missing a few concepts!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain8 View Post
New to RV life an recently bought a 2000 Fleetwood 37V which has a 30a shore, freedom 458 2000w inverter, 8000 onan generator with 4 GC2 6V 225AH in series/parallel so 450AH/12V. And 2 AC units (unsure of size)

I'm planning a customization of this rig with a ton of expensive tech so concerned about power stability. I've replaced all batteries and today am replacing the inverter with a Victron 2000w along with adding some Victron controls for management. Since the Victron is sinewave my understanding is I want everything to run through the inverter so I have clean stable power. But since it's only 2000w my power will be bottlenecked which can be resolved by adding additional inverters in parallel.

both shore power and generator power are also stable power sources. you don't need to run them though an inverter. in fact, if you do run these through inverters the inverters will do nothing and just pass the external power source through it. the only need for an inverter is to generate 120 volt power from the batteries when you do not have either shore power or generator power.

My questions are. Is this how these RVs are wired originally where everything runs through the inverter or do I need to trace and rewire things?

no, not everything was wired to run through the inverter. as mentioned above it is a small power source using the batteries when shore power and generator power were not present.


One of the AC units needs replaced (fan works just no AC) and since only 30a it can only run 1 AC at a time so the intellinet thing sheds and will switch from one to the other every 30 minutes. On generator it seems I can run both. If I buy another inverter or two so I have 4000w or 6000w inverter power would I be able to run both with shore power and have also it use the batteries for when it goes over the 30a shore then she'd when the batteries get low?

very expensive and it will get very complicated very fast! even a 2000 watt inverter may not be big enough to run an a/c and even if it could, you'd need tons more battery capacity! tons more!


Maybe I should buy a smaller and efficient AC unit so I can get both to run under 30a?

quite few people report being able to run 2 a/c's on 30 amps using the softstart add-in modules. i have no experience with this so no recommendation.
my guess is that the rv has already been substantially modified. it would not be common to have a 30 amp rv with 2 a/c's. and an 8000 watt generator is way overkill for a 30 amp rv.

do what you want but please do some research before you start spending a lot of money.
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Old 08-14-2022, 09:31 AM   #4
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If you want the inverter connected to everything, wire it to the generator input to the transfer switch, then install an outlet to plug the shore power cable to the generator. I did this on my rig and it works fine.
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Old 08-14-2022, 10:05 AM   #5
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If you want the inverter connected to everything, wire it to the generator input to the transfer switch, then install an outlet to plug the shore power cable to the generator. I did this on my rig and it works fine.
I can see how this might would work to power all outlets through the coach , but a 2000 watt inverter is only going to be capable of providing 16.6 amps of power at 120 volt output, into the coach , so just over 1/2 of what 30 amp shore power would provide .
Jon_C , did you have to disable the inverter charge circuit , or doesn't your inverter also act as a charger ?

Thanks to , bigchick , for reminding about pass through power once an inverter is supplied shore/genset power .
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Old 08-14-2022, 12:52 PM   #6
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This coach is standard with 30amp service and both ac is standard. Everything in it looks to be stock
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:02 PM   #7
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i will try to give some answers but i think you really need to do some research before you start your customization. it looks like you are missing a few concepts!



my guess is that the rv has already been substantially modified. it would not be common to have a 30 amp rv with 2 a/c's. and an 8000 watt generator is way overkill for a 30 amp rv.

do what you want but please do some research before you start spending a lot of money.
I think our definition of stable is different. Any high end electrical devices should have a power conditioning unit or a UPS with sinewave to get solid 120V power. My understanding is an inverter with sinewave should provide constant 120V power even if shoes/generator is providing non stable 110-130V thus minimizing risk of power spikes or other issues. Victron even advertises their MP to provide this and UPS incase shore/generator power is lost.

Also I don't think I'll need more batteries either as I have 450AH/12V which should provide 45AH ar 120V and even with a 30amp service fully uses I should get 1-1.5 hours from batteries. Also if my goal is to drive using 1 AC (15amp) I should be able to get about 3 hours of continuous use.

So from the comments it sounds like the AC/fridge isn't connected to the inverter but likely all or most of the outlets are. This should solve my problem of electronics using only clean energy but not the problem of using either AC on battery power. Fridge is non-issue since it can use propane.
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:18 PM   #8
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How does the 120V system work

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
I can see how this might would work to power all outlets through the coach , but a 2000 watt inverter is only going to be capable of providing 16.6 amps of power at 120 volt output, into the coach , so just over 1/2 of what 30 amp shore power would provide .

Jon_C , did you have to disable the inverter charge circuit , or doesn't your inverter also act as a charger ?



Thanks to , bigchick , for reminding about pass through power once an inverter is supplied shore/genset power .


Yes i put a relay powered only by the inverter to open the 120vac circuit to the charger, that way itís automatic
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:24 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain8 View Post
I think our definition of stable is different. Any high end electrical devices should have a power conditioning unit or a UPS with sinewave to get solid 120V power. My understanding is an inverter with sinewave should provide constant 120V power even if shoes/generator is providing non stable 110-130V thus minimizing risk of power spikes or other issues. Victron even advertises their MP to provide this and UPS incase shore/generator power is lost.

Also I don't think I'll need more batteries either as I have 450AH/12V which should provide 45AH ar 120V and even with a 30amp service fully uses I should get 1-1.5 hours from batteries. Also if my goal is to drive using 1 AC (15amp) I should be able to get about 3 hours of continuous use.

So from the comments it sounds like the AC/fridge isn't connected to the inverter but likely all or most of the outlets are. This should solve my problem of electronics using only clean energy but not the problem of using either AC on battery power. Fridge is non-issue since it can use propane.
You would not believe the thousands of hours of research that has been put in by professionals on being able to run RV a/c units on battery power. Yes, it can be done, but not with you're present setup, period. Your own research can answer all your questions on this subject, starting with the many threads on the subject here at iRV2.
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:46 PM   #10
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You would not believe the thousands of hours of research that has been put in by professionals on being able to run RV a/c units on battery power. Yes, it can be done, but not with you're present setup, period. Your own research can answer all your questions on this subject, starting with the many threads on the subject here at iRV2.
Thanks I'm trying to figure out the basics on how it's currently wired and my expectations before I dig into how I want/need to have it setup. I'm still trying to figure out what's broken, what can be simply upgraded vs what needs a complete redesign to get what I want.

So far I'm about 5k in tires/drive repairs, 5k in Victron electronics/batteries and 5k in TV/interior electronics.
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Old 08-14-2022, 01:54 PM   #11
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Quote:
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You would not believe the thousands of hours of research that has been put in by professionals on being able to run RV a/c units on battery power. Yes, it can be done, but not with you're present setup, period. Your own research can answer all your questions on this subject, starting with the many threads on the subject here at iRV2.


I have a 5000 watt inverter with 4/0 cables and 4 6v GC batteries and can only run my a/c for about 1.5 hours before they hit 50% charge.

With enough batteries you could run it longer but recharging becomes the issue
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Old 08-14-2022, 02:22 PM   #12
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I have a 5000 watt inverter with 4/0 cables and 4 6v GC batteries and can only run my a/c for about 1.5 hours before they hit 50% charge.

With enough batteries you could run it longer but recharging becomes the issue
This is on par with my assumptions. What size AC and how many? How long does recharging take?

I plan on really only using for weekend trips and needing batteries for AC while driving then recharging when we get to a campsite/home. I figured we'll only need 1 AC on and if we only need AC half the time we should be good for a few hours at least.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:11 PM   #13
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This is on par with my assumptions. What size AC and how many? How long does recharging take?

I plan on really only using for weekend trips and needing batteries for AC while driving then recharging when we get to a campsite/home. I figured we'll only need 1 AC on and if we only need AC half the time we should be good for a few hours at least.
Fully recharging FLAís will take hours. The final 10% takes forever and a day. If you hit them with an hour or so of charging here and there, they will never get fully charged and you will be contributing to their early demise.

bigchick provided some great information. Iíd add to that the suggestion to just run the generator while driving in order to power the A/Cís and charge the batteries. Add a surge guard to the coach. Weíve all been using campground pedestal power and generators to power our TVís and computers for years. Some of us have even been using MSW inverters without issue.

Youíve made some very nice upgrades. Unless you want to keep throwing money at it, take a minute and listen to the advice from some experienced members.
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Old 08-14-2022, 03:37 PM   #14
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This is on par with my assumptions. What size AC and how many? How long does recharging take?



I plan on really only using for weekend trips and needing batteries for AC while driving then recharging when we get to a campsite/home. I figured we'll only need 1 AC on and if we only need AC half the time we should be good for a few hours at least.


I donít normally use batteries to run the a/c due to the amount of time needed to recharge, lead acid takes About 18 hours to fully recover.

If i was going to do it regularly I would go with lithium batteries. I run my a/c while driving on my 340 amp alternator if needed, it pulls around 150 dc amps and i only run the front air and only when the batteries are charged as to not overheat the alternator. A/c is a 25 year old dometic penguin 13.500 btu im guessing.

I have a friend who runs his a/c on 4 Battleborn batteries (400ah) for short periods like a lunch stop in his 5ver, he has 800 watts solar to recharge and victron multiplus 3000 watt inverter / charger , very nice system but between $5 and $10k investment and we did the install ourselves
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