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11-28-2020, 11:40 AM
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#29
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Moderator Emeritus
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 19,417
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My OT Thermostat and Control Thermostat both have the screw terminal strip. Made sure they were good and tight. Ran about 24 hours without issues so far.
I am planning on reviewing the burner control unit connectors checking crimps, cleaning with contact cleaner. I am about 5 days without faults so far.
__________________
Steve
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
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11-28-2020, 11:53 AM
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#30
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 970
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Used laptop to upload picture of my connectors. the two darker ones, on the right, where on the diesel control thermostat. the lighter colored ones where on the high temperature thermostat for the diesel side.
Next time i crawl in there will take contact cleaner and reseat the mechanical relays after cleaning them. Noticed I said not if but when. If this fix I just did makes it work will actually go the next step and do the relays.
Terry
__________________
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PKD. Marjorie 2.
2015 Equinox V6 Roadmaster tow setup
2019 ALP Adventurer 24DS for the short trips. April, 2021
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11-28-2020, 11:58 AM
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#31
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 4,875
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I'm following along because it's these types of problems that I end up with (even if I don't yet have a coach with AH).
Steve, your troubleshooting with data accumulation equipment is way, way cool. You're doing something that is most likely unavailable at any RV dealer's service dept. and that AquaHot probably only does in the lab.
I hope you arrive at a definitive diagnosis. Thanks for 'showing your homework'!
Terry, those are some nasty looking terminals. Good catch, and I think you're spot on to do the relay service, too.
__________________
2005 Four Winds Majestic 23A
“To the world you may be one person; but to one person you may be the world.” - Dr Suess
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11-28-2020, 06:44 PM
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#32
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Over the next hill, around the next curve...
Posts: 5,659
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FYI on an intermittent non diesel firing, that plagued us off and on for 2 years.
Various symptoms:
- Inside Diesel Light would go on fine, but burner would not fire
- Inside Diesel Light would go on fine, burner would fire up the first time, but then the Diesel Light would go out, and no more firing up of the burner
- Inside Diesel Light would not to on, when the switch was activated. And burner would nor fire up
- Inside Diesel Light would go on, and the Burner would consistently fire, multiple times over a few week period
(I'll stop here, but key word is 'intermittent' combinations of Burner behavior.)
Over a two year period, I did lots of work myself. And, we had three good shops with good tech's, as well as an four independent AH/HH certified Tech's, look at the problem. Replaced many parts over this two years...
What did it finally turn out to be? Well, Dave, a Tech at Oregon Motor Coach - serviced the HH (HydroHot 500 series, basically same as AH450's.). He called me out into the shop, to show me what he'd found.
The wire harnesses plugs that go form the controller and the burner, get unplugged during service. Male/Female Plugs. The wires going into the plugs, were 'punch in' connections. One of he wires had partially become 'punched in', and was close enough that at times it would connect well and work. And at times it was not close enough to make contact and work. Punched back in all of he way, and the unit worked flawlessly since then. (Now, just a casual look at the harness, and seeing all of the wires going into the connection, you would not see the loose connection. Dave took the time to inspect each wire, until he noticed that wire had about 3/8" of pare metal visible, where when punched in securely, most wires you could sometimes see no bare metal.)
So as we would be driving, vibration would sometimes have the wire end in a close enough contact to work well, other times not. Sometimes it was close enough to work, but then vibration of the blower was enough to knock just loose enough to not make contact a second time. Etc!
By the way, OMC had serviced the unit once before, as one of the places who I'd asked to help solve the problem. NOT A KNOCK, as it was not the norm...
So, just FYI sharing...
Best to all,
Smitty
__________________
07 Country Coach Magna Rembrandt 45' ISX600
Roo II was our 04 Country Coach Allure 40'
OnDRoad for The JRNY! Enjoy life...
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11-28-2020, 07:41 PM
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#33
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Moderator Emeritus
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 19,417
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Terry, Those are some rough looking connectors. Replacing and dielectric sounds like a good idea.
Thanks Solo, I am determined to get to the root of the problem. Given the intermittent nature I knew better monitoring of the the system was needed.
Smitty, I am a little concerned with the “C” connector harness, checked price on one today and it was over $200. So my plan is to inspect, clean and add dielectric. This harness could be part of the problem. The flame sensor circuit could fault with a questionable connection or damaged wire as resistance change is how it works normally.
__________________
Steve
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
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11-29-2020, 10:45 AM
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#34
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Metamora, MI
Posts: 5,518
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Steve, curious - are you an EE? good diagnostics going on here.
If problem continues, maybe resolder the controller PCB? Maybe a cold solder somewhere making it intermittent / heat related.
Are you using an Analog to Digital interface for the monitoring? Wifi to a MQTT application that is filling a database? What are you using for a user interface? Red Node?
I am in the middle of cleaning up / modernizing my wetbay. After that, the HydroHot automation is on the list of upgrade projects.
__________________
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire Limited 4370 w/ Spartan K2 and Cummins 500hp
ASE Master Certified (a long.....time ago...)
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11-29-2020, 11:38 AM
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#35
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Moderator Emeritus
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 19,417
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HydroHot/AquaHot Diesel Burner
Dav L
No, not an EE just been tinkering with electronics for 40 years.
The data collection device is using an ESP8266 based device the custom PCB/circuit just has some opto couplers to keep the high voltages away from the 3.3v microcontroller. It is strictly digital for this setup. I did build a custom PCB with some analog inputs for my smoker monitor. The temp monitoring modules just use a temp and humidity sensor communicating via a 1-wire bus.
Learning to design and build the custom circuits is something I did with my job as an High Speed assembly Automation engineer. I needed special devices for them and decided to just build on my own.
All these are wifi devices and communicate to my personal MQTT servers.
RV has its own server to queue data and send to main MQTT server.
Each of the MQTT servers use Mosquitto for MQTT and Telegraf to resend the data either to database or RV->Main server.
Main MQTT server also has InfluxDB database and Graphana for parsing and displaying data.
Both MQTT servers reside on Raspberry Pi’s.
My main temp/humidity screen from Graphana.
__________________
Steve
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
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11-29-2020, 12:48 PM
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#36
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Moderator Emeritus
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 19,417
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Here is a graph showing the temps and HydroHot Cycling past 24 hours.
Heat Pumps are on and set to 64°, as the outside temp drops the furnace/HydroHot kicks in at around 35°.
__________________
Steve
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
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12-03-2020, 06:44 AM
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#37
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Moderator Emeritus
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 19,417
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The HydroHot is still performing well. Had some chilly nights and the temp inside and wet bay remained consistent. I did discover a bad spade connector crimp on one of the circulation pumps. In the spring I may replace all of them. With the temps now remaining low I may go ahead and winterize and put the RV to bed till early spring. Still some cleanup and inspection of wiring but feel that it is now working as it should.
__________________
Steve
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
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12-03-2020, 04:07 PM
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#38
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Community Administrator
Pond Piggies Club LA Gulf Coast Campers Outdoors RV Owners Club Entegra Owners Club Skyline Owners Group
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 40,594
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Thank you for all your testing & posting, Steve. So am I correct in assuming the major culprit was the OT thermostat?
Lori-
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Lori (& Dave, my spirit guide) - RV/MH Hall of Fame Lifetime Member | My iRV2 Photo Albums
2016 Phoenix Cruiser 2350S, 2018 Phaeton 40IH,2006 Bounder 36Z, 2004 Cougar 285EFS, 2000 Aerolite 25FBR
There is great need for a sarcasm font.
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12-03-2020, 04:19 PM
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#39
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Moderator Emeritus
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Southern Indiana
Posts: 19,417
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I really think there were a couple problems. OT for sure was one of them as frequency of faults dropped way off when I jumpered it out of the system. Been almost a week with new OT installed.
The other issue is one of below.
Flame sensor Dirty although it looked clean.
Spark electrodes were adjusted but only 1/32”
Loose wire connection or damaged wire in Webasto wire harness as it was disconnected when flame sensor cleaned.
I am going to review the wire harness closely in the spring as it is getting too cold and need to put coach in storage.
It is sure nice to see it running well now!
__________________
Steve
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire 4095
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12-05-2020, 09:33 PM
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#40
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Fleetwood Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Posts: 970
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Seven days and counting since last failure of Aqua-Hot.
Those darn terminals I replaced where the trouble.
Sure nice to have the Aquahot back and working with just having to feed it diesel.
Good luck and I will check and clean the other connectors also.
Terry
Hanging out in Lower Mainland of British Columbia for the winter so need the heat as we only have 30 amp service.
__________________
2002 Monaco Windsor 40PKD. Marjorie 2.
2015 Equinox V6 Roadmaster tow setup
2019 ALP Adventurer 24DS for the short trips. April, 2021
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12-05-2020, 11:21 PM
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#41
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Location: Metamora, MI
Posts: 5,518
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spk64
It is sure nice to see it running well now!
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Nice job with the diagnostics!!
__________________
2002 Newmar Mountain Aire Limited 4370 w/ Spartan K2 and Cummins 500hp
ASE Master Certified (a long.....time ago...)
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12-12-2020, 10:57 AM
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#42
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,385
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I wish this forum had a thumbs up button!
This is a great thread!
Thanks to Steve and everyone else for some great troubleshooting. I'd think you were all vietnam era navy FTM's!
Mine is an ah400d, in a 2017 coach.
Constant problems since I bought it a year old.
First intermittent Aquahot problem was a flaky main thermostat. Rather than going bamm I'm hot, it "flickered" sometimes. This made the wabasto nuts and it shut down.
Next was a bad blower/pump motor, hopefully just a random failure.
Then an AC hi limit switch failure. This is bypassed, I don't see any way to actually replace it.
Recently I had a low level error. Both dc lo level sensors were tripped. Took 2 gallons to fill it!
But it is maintaining level now and no sign of a leak ?
And I'm still struggling with the deisel burner randomly shutting down.
Wondering if updating from the black box to the new one will fix it?
$1000 hit!
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