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06-17-2024, 03:13 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2024
Posts: 5
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I want to eliminate alternator charging house batteries
Hello all I own a 2008 winnebago sightseer 30b has the GM workhorse gas chassis. I recently converted the house batteries from 2 Lead acid to 4 Lithium 12v100ah. I am going to install a victron 12/12/30amp DC to DC converter to eliminate chassis alternator from charging the lithiums, my question is which solenoid do I disable the black one on top or the silver one on bottom.
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06-17-2024, 03:24 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 34,181
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Should be the silver one , the black one is a disconnect solenoid for storage .
For a test to be positive , check voltage on both sides of the silver relay , compare to battery bank voltage at the batteries , if the voltage is too close to figure which side is from which set of batteries ; disconnect the chassis battery and see which side has no volt reading to determine which cable is from the coach batteries.
I believe you'll loose the dash " Boost " ( emergency start ) function too.
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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06-17-2024, 03:30 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 34,181
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__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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06-17-2024, 03:33 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner Grand Design Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Titusville, FL
Posts: 1,557
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLM
Hello all I own a 2008 winnebago sightseer 30b has the GM workhorse gas chassis. I recently converted the house batteries from 2 Lead acid to 4 Lithium 12v100ah. I am going to install a victron 12/12/30amp DC to DC converter to eliminate chassis alternator from charging the lithiums, my question is which solenoid do I disable the black one on top or the silver one on bottom.
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So what will charge them while traveling? Or will you just use them while traveling without charging and just let shore power charge them. Or is solar involved somehow?
And if you only charge from shore power, then why would you need a DC to DC charger?
Will you be running alternator output into the DC to DC charger?
I think that words "...eliminate chassis alternator..." has me confused.
__________________
2018 F350 CC, SB
2022 F-350, CC, LB, Reese Gooseball
2019 Grand Design Solitude 310GKR
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06-17-2024, 07:33 PM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2024
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveldawg
So what will charge them while traveling? Or will you just use them while traveling without charging and just let shore power charge them. Or is solar involved somehow?
And if you only charge from shore power, then why would you need a DC to DC charger?
Will you be running alternator output into the DC to DC charger?
I think that words "...eliminate chassis alternator..." has me confused.
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Sorry for the confusion alternator feeds the chassis battery, I am trying to eliminate house batteries from being charged “ directly” by alternator. House batteries will be fed by dc to dc charger from chassis battery also have solar/shore and generator as charging sources for house batteries
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06-17-2024, 07:40 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Powell River, B.C.
Posts: 34,181
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Lithium batteries required rate of charge has resulted in coach alternators being overworked and early failure .
__________________
99DSDP 3884, Freightliner, XC, CAT 3126B, 300 HP /ALLISON 3060
2000 Caravan toad, Remco & Blue Ox.
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06-17-2024, 07:46 PM
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#7
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 4,033
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You have a couple different options. You can keep the solenoid in place and feed the DC-DC charger right off of it (disconnecting the solenoid to house battery cable). You can also feed the DC-DC charger a different way then extend the solenoid ground out to a convenient location where you can either put it on a switch or a quick connect plug, this way if you ever need to use your boost switch you can throw the switch or plug the wires back together. (It can also be used in an emergency to restore direct alternator charging if the DC-DC fails).
On your Winnebago solenoid you will notice the white wire is the ground and the positive side has 2 yellows, one of those yellows goes to ground but do not let that fool you into thinking it is the solenoid ground, it is not. It has a diode in the line and it is connected to ground to eliminate flyback current when the solenoid opens which helps save the contacts from arcing. The other yellow goes to innition ON power and to the boost switch if equipped.
On my DC-DC hookup I fed my DC-DC from the chassis battery side of the solenoid and put a disconnect in the ground wire (I didn't want to use a switch for fear it would get bumped), then I installed a toggle switch in the DC-DC charger control wire in case I ever want to shut the DC-DC charger off.
So now my alternator still powers up the chassis side of the solenoid but from there it goes to the DC-DC since the solenoid is effectively disabled. The fat wire from the house bank to the coach side of the solenoid is still in place should I ever need to use the boost function. It simplified the install and required very little wire. (My Victron DC-DC has provisions for different control wire options and I chose ON/OFF with a toggle switch that is not shown on the diagram).
__________________
Brian, 2011 Winnebago Via Class A on Sprinter Chassis
2000 Jeep TJ toad
Tucson, AZ
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06-17-2024, 10:13 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2024
Posts: 5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigb56
You have a couple different options. You can keep the solenoid in place and feed the DC-DC charger right off of it (disconnecting the solenoid to house battery cable). You can also feed the DC-DC charger a different way then extend the solenoid ground out to a convenient location where you can either put it on a switch or a quick connect plug, this way if you ever need to use your boost switch you can throw the switch or plug the wires back together. (It can also be used in an emergency to restore direct alternator charging if the DC-DC fails).
On your Winnebago solenoid you will notice the white wire is the ground and the positive side has 2 yellows, one of those yellows goes to ground but do not let that fool you into thinking it is the solenoid ground, it is not. It has a diode in the line and it is connected to ground to eliminate flyback current when the solenoid opens which helps save the contacts from arcing. The other yellow goes to innition ON power and to the boost switch if equipped.
On my DC-DC hookup I fed my DC-DC from the chassis battery side of the solenoid and put a disconnect in the ground wire (I didn't want to use a switch for fear it would get bumped), then I installed a toggle switch in the DC-DC charger control wire in case I ever want to shut the DC-DC charger off.
So now my alternator still powers up the chassis side of the solenoid but from there it goes to the DC-DC since the solenoid is effectively disabled. The fat wire from the house bank to the coach side of the solenoid is still in place should I ever need to use the boost function. It simplified the install and required very little wire. (My Victron DC-DC has provisions for different control wire options and I chose ON/OFF with a toggle switch that is not shown on the diagram).
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Thank you for the information this is great stuff! With regards to the 2 yellow wires on the solenoid positive I assume I leave those connected and intact? And I insert a male/female disconnect plug on the white solenoid ground wire so in case of emergency I can restore boost function and alternator charging of the house batteries
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06-18-2024, 07:29 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 4,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NLM
Thank you for the information this is great stuff! With regards to the 2 yellow wires on the solenoid positive I assume I leave those connected and intact? And I insert a male/female disconnect plug on the white solenoid ground wire so in case of emergency I can restore boost function and alternator charging of the house batteries
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Yes that is correct. If you have the original Trombetta solenoid that Winnie used on many RVs, it has long terminal studs and can fit several wires easily. I have a Cole Hersee and was still able to fit 3 but I did do some re-configuring using custom made cables from battery cables usa. They made all my DC-DC cables and a couple more that I wanted to change, like the two that feed the fuse bus I had them make into a "Y" pair with a single connector at one end to take up less space on the solenoid stud. https://www.batterycablesusa.com/
great service and fast, economical shipping.
One thing I forgot about, the Trombetta does not have a ground terminal, it grounds thru the case and has 2 white wires that are attached under one of the mounting screws. That's going to make it harder to follow my plan, you'll either need to find a way to isolate the Trombetta from grounding (mounting to wood, plastic etc) or replace it with a 2 terminal solenoid like the Cole Hersee. Alternately you could interrupt the positive wire instead, probably the easiest solution.
Hopefully your junction box is not as hard to access as mine was, I had scars for a long time after re-working mine!
__________________
Brian, 2011 Winnebago Via Class A on Sprinter Chassis
2000 Jeep TJ toad
Tucson, AZ
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06-18-2024, 08:53 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Ford Super Duty Owner Grand Design Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Titusville, FL
Posts: 1,557
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Wouldn't this be as simple as disconnecting the existing cable to the house batteries from the alternator charging wire (wherever or however it comes from a solenoid or some other place) and connecting that wire to the DC-DC charger?
__________________
2018 F350 CC, SB
2022 F-350, CC, LB, Reese Gooseball
2019 Grand Design Solitude 310GKR
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06-18-2024, 08:57 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 4,033
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For a real easy way out you can also simply remove the fat charge wire from your house bank and bolt the DC-DC input cable onto it, then run the DC-DC output right to the battery bank. The reason I didn't do this though is because I didn't want to depend on the BIS to feed the DC-DC, plus I wanted a neat install.
Be sure to fuse the DC-DC per the instructions and fuse the battery bank as close to the battery terminations as possible. I only have a single LiFeP04 so I used a MRBF.
__________________
Brian, 2011 Winnebago Via Class A on Sprinter Chassis
2000 Jeep TJ toad
Tucson, AZ
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06-18-2024, 09:00 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2018
Posts: 4,033
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Quote:
Originally Posted by traveldawg
Wouldn't this be as simple as disconnecting the existing cable to the house batteries from the alternator charging wire (wherever or however it comes from a solenoid or some other place) and connecting that wire to the DC-DC charger?
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Depends on the way it is wired, on most Winnie motorhomes the alternator charge wire goes to the chassis battery first, then from there is heads off to the BIS then the house battery, but yes it could be done, see my post above that I was typing when you replied.
There are many options. He could also move the wire with the yellow tape to the other side of the BIS and remove it from the house battery at the other end and feed the DC-DC that way which eliminates the BIS.
The reason I chose to do what I did was a neat job and easily reversible even if just temporary. If you saw how incredibly difficult it was to access my junction box you'd see there was no way to work in there while on the road or in a camp site.
__________________
Brian, 2011 Winnebago Via Class A on Sprinter Chassis
2000 Jeep TJ toad
Tucson, AZ
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06-22-2024, 11:59 AM
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#13
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2024
Posts: 5
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Thank you all you guys rock ended up splicing in a toggle switch with about 8 inches of additional wire to the center post yellow power cable of the trombetta solenoid left the white wire that is spliced into the same post undisturbed. The eight inches of additional cable provided me enough slack to run the toggle switch to the unoccupied holes in the circuit breaker panel that covers both of those solenoids. Installation is very clean and the dc-dc charger works great, alternator is only charging the chassis battery and toggle switch allows me to go back to factory configuration and battery boost I. An emergency I will post pictures when I get a chance in order to help someone else as gracefully as you all helped me!
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06-22-2024, 12:43 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2024
Location: Bohemia NY
Posts: 1,976
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DC to DC Battery Charger thoughts.
Of the advantages of Lithium batteries is the availability of more usable energy and the ability to charge faster. 400 A/H of lithium battery is a major improvement over lead acid or AGM.
Your selection of a 30 A/H charge system completely negates the fast charge advantage. 400/30 puts you at over a 13 hour rate. A 4-6 hour rate would be better.
Another consideration is the use of house loads while driving. Are you using a residential fridge? 30 amps @ 12 volts = 360 watts. Check the fridge data plate, this may not even keep up. Anything else connected to an inverter?
Yes lithium batteries can be hard on alternators due to their improved charge acceptance especially at low stat of charge. Part of managing them includes possibly restoring some charge from generator-inverter-charging before going to the engine alternator. Another option is to increase the alternator size along with a programable controller or even a dual alternator system.
__________________
Dennis
Bohemia NY
2008 Nimbus 342 SE Carlyle
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